Blogging. Do you know what it is? Its slang for WebLog – ie, an online diary. We all had them as kids, a lockable diary that your brother always found and tortured you with when he came across hearts and kisses around a certain boy’s name….
In the modern millenium though, diaries don’t seem to be private anymore, they’re now online and for all the world to see. Yes, I know that blogs can be anonymous, and yes, you can set privacy levels to heights where only a certain privileged few can see in, but they’re now no longer people’s personal musings, but are now becoming some sort of media in their own right.
I was recently at the IMATS in London, and because MAF is a recognised online magazine, myself and one of the regular contributers were granted press passes as members of The Media.
Online magazines are relatively new, one of the more famous ones is Handbag.com, but then of course there are the online sites that sit next to hardcopy magazines – think Cosmopolitan, Marie Claire etc, but because of the content of MAF, we qualify to sit as a magazine!
So imagine my surprise when I met a couple of girls with yellow press passes who then, when I asked which Media company they were with, answered with ‘oh, we’re not media, we’re bloggers’!
I’ve since investigated their blog. It’s long, they seem to churn out great long reviews every day, but don’t actually say very much. By their own admission to me, neither of them are makeup artists, or beauty professionals, in fact their ‘day jobs’ are so far removed from the cosmetics industry that it made me wonder what qualified them to be counted as beauty journalists – after all, that’s what members of the Press and Media are.
I will hasten to add that I’ve never been to journalism school and don’t have qualifications in writing, however, I write with a journalistic approach. When I review a product, I talk about it from both a professional point of view, and from a personal point of view. I talk about the good and bad points of a product and my articles have a start, a discussion, and a conclusion.
I read one particular blog post from this same pair of girls, where they were talking about counterstaff hygiene. This is something very close to my heart – I’ve been going on about hygiene standards at work for years and years, long before I became a makeup artist, and will more than happily challenge counterstaff if I see their hygiene levels are less than perfect.
This post however very loosely hid that they were trashing Benefit cosmetics and the poster actually allowed a sales assistant to put an eyeliner on her, knowing it wasn’t clean or sanitised, went to another counter afterwards and removed the makeup (clearly she would have given a reason to them, I’m sure most counters won’t just let women randomly ask to remove their makeup using their products), and then proceeded to talk about whether she should or shouldn’t complain or not, saying that she didn’t want the counter staff member to lose her job.
What’s the point of that blog? Should she have allowed someone to put an eyeliner on her knowing it wasn’t clean? Of course not.
Should she have gone to another counter and complained about the first company? No. It would certainly have put the 2nd company in an awkward position.
Should she have complained to anyone? Of course, and she should have done it then and there to the manager, and certainly not to worry about the member of staff’s job. This is clearly a training issue where hygiene hasn’t been drummed into them enough, and Benefit are extremely tight on hygiene (I know, I’ve spoken with them about it in the past, and have observed head office staff working to the highest level with disposables etc.) Put it this way, I’m sure the counter manager would have rather known then and there about a possible issue, so that she could deal with it straight away, rather than having them badmouthed across the internet.
I’m going to go out on a limb here now, and say that in my opinion, Benefit counter staff are pretty hot on their hygiene. I have a number of stores that I can access easily, and haven’t yet seen an issue there. That isn’t to say that there aren’t ocassional blips on counter, but that would be the same for every company, and not exclusive to Benefit.
So what was the point of the blog though, other than to talk for the sake of talking?
This was just the tip of the iceberg though, so I decided to delve deeper into the world of beauty blogging.
I’m going to add a further disclaimer here, I am going to generalise and talk about beauty bloggers in the main, though I do know that there are exceptions to the rule, however, most non professional (non makeup artist/beauty professionals) bloggers are relatively fickle.
I struggled to find blogs about core products that brands offer. Very few talk about foundations and powders and base makeup, and even less talk about staple eye products, like neutral eye colours and shades.
What they all talk about is the ‘latest thing’ that’s on the market, new ‘cult’ lip products or wacky eye colours.
In fact, while at the IMATS, I was talking to another blogger/youtuber who mentioned a new brand just on the market. Now I have a selection of these products here, kindly sent to me for my review and professional opinion. I actually really like them and the packaging, have found the products to be pretty flipping great, and have tried them on a variety of people. I think the packaging is great and so far (6 weeks of testing in) faultless.
This particular blogger hadn’t tried them herself, but told me that they were rubbish and that they weren’t very good. She said she’d heard that the dispensing mechanism was poor, and that people were saying they were too heavy.
I asked her if she’d used them or even seen them herself. She said no, but that she’d read blogs on them. I urged her to try them, but she said she didn’t want to, because she’d read what other people have said.
Again, I’ve done my investigation since this conversation, and are you kidding me? These are NON professionals who’ve tried them out 2 or 3 times and trashed them straight off. I’m a professional makeup artist and have been using them for about 6 weeks on dozens of different faces and am now prepared to give them an appropriate review, based on experience and a test over time.
So is there too much being read into what bloggers are saying? Are they being taken too seriously? Can a handful of bloggers make or break a brand?
I spoke to Illamasqua, who’ve had great success in the last 14 months, and put a lot of that down to bloggers. Illamasqua have a blog of their own, and have done events for their favoured bloggers, so it seems to be successful for them, and their feeling is that blogging will be the new media in a few years time.
On the other side though, OCC (obsessive compulsive cosmetics) have had great success with their Lip Tar based on blog reviews, but their other mineral products have had less than favourable blog reviews, and as a result aren’t selling anywhere near as much.
But what about brands like MAC and Bobbi Brown who don’t go in for modern day ‘media’? Do they need to worry about the lack of blogs of their own? I don’t think so. Yes, it’s a shame that there aren’t more blogs that talk about good quality base products and its a shame that some move on from one product very quickly, to the new ‘latest thing’ and that some brands can’t even get off the starting block because of a handful of biased reviews.
So is blogging the new media? Well it would appear that we’re going that way, but perhaps its time to take more seriously, the blogger who has a professional background to what she’s saying, rather than the one that talks the most and the loudest, often with not a lot of content.
February 19 2010 – The bloggers who were referenced above regarding counter hygiene, have stated that they were not discussing the Benefit counter when they were discussing hygiene.
February 5th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
Hear Hear! I’m a pro artist too and get really frustrated when I’m not taken seriously, but so called makeup ‘junkies’ are. As if they’re the font of all knowledge.
February 5th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Thanks for commenting Emily. I think there should be a healthy respect for beauty bloggers, but I do get frustrated, as you clearly do too, that their opinion counts for more than a professional artist’s does.
I talked with one blogger at the IMATS regarding MAC studio fix fluid – a product I love and use a lot. Her words were ‘oh that’s a load of crap’, which I was very surprised at, and when I pushed her, she said she wasn’t a professional, and only blogged about her own face makeup.
Her following is quite large too, so there’s hundreds of women out there who think that particular foundation is ‘crap’ based on her opinion, which in turn, is based on how it sits on her skin, which in it’s turn (!) is probably representative of about 10% of the population…
February 6th, 2010 at 9:51 am
As you know, I’m a compulsive blogger. I don’t blog about anything in particular so I’m not giving advie to people, just voicing my thoughts. Nor am I a journalist, I think I just like reading my own words! I find it very therpeutic as well.
It doesn’t matter what kind of blogging you do, you have to realise that people are going to read it and you have to be prepared to back up your statements. I hve a disclaimer on my blog advising people that they don’t have to like what’s written there, but they have to respect that I have an opinion in the same way I do. (I’m harking back to a time when I posted a comment about a PUBLIC blog that I thought was out of order. Someone posted that I had no right. She then went on to say that I had no right to comment on her comments about me. Ironic? Oh yes). I digress. My general thought is that if you have to think twice about what you post, don’t post it; don’t post anything that can come back and bite you on the ass; don’t post things and then challenge people to ‘prove’ you’ve written them (there are 2 great inventions called ‘copy and paste’ and ‘screenshot’); don’t name names unless you have your facts straight; be prepared for criticism but don’t be afraid to allow the posts, otherwise things tend to look a little one-sided.
For beauty bloggers to post opinions based on hearsay and not trial shows them for what they are…not capable of independent thought. If they can’t make up their own minds, how much credibility can you really give them? It sounds to me like the girls you are referring to were simply looking for something to bitch about. Not very professional and I suspect they’ve shown themselves for the idiots they are. We all know that people can be very impressionable and will follow like sheep if someone ‘sounds’ like they know what they’re talking about.
February 6th, 2010 at 9:52 am
My apologies for the spelling mistakes. This is why I’m not a journalist!
February 10th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
There are some people who ought to have disclaimers on their blogs saying ‘I haven’t got a bloody clue what I’m talking about’ just so you know to ignore the advice they’re giving. Sam, you need a disclaimer saying ‘I DO know what I’m on about’.
KA
February 11th, 2010 at 9:43 am
I can’t believe that we’re moving into a generation where everything is online and that blogging is new media. Where will it stop? TV piped direct into our brains?
February 11th, 2010 at 10:12 am
And I thought I was the only one bored of bloggers talking about stuff they know little about.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
I’m a beauty blogger, but I’m not a makeup artist. Why can’t my thoughts be taken seriously?
February 11th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
At last, I thought I was the only one who was sick of these so called ‘experts’
February 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Beauty Blogger. No-one is saying that your thoughts shouldn’t be taken seriously, but that they should be taken in context. If you ‘review’ a product, it’s based on a non professional application, and on one face. Your face and skin doesn’t represent the whole of the nation, so if you say that a product is ‘rubbish’ (for example), you’re basing that on it’s reaction on your own skin and how well you do/don’t like a colour/finish/texture.
That’s not journalistic, that’s biased.
Sam
February 11th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
What gets me about blogging in general, and not just beauty blogging is that anyone can post anything they like, and they don’t have to back up their statements or qualify their opinion.
I’m not a fan of blogs. In make up terms, I don’t need to know what suited someone elses’s skin – I need to know that a product has been tested on a variety of different skin types, and that it may (or may not) suit my skin type. That’s just the start though. I would then need to try said product and see how I liked it on my skin.
As bases are being ignored in blogging terms, I’ll give a base example. I have very dry skin and I know that a lot of water based foundations do not suit it – they are too dry and can even flake. I could blog that Chanel Mattlumiere is rubbish and that Chanel Vitalumiere is the bees knees. But for the next blogger, the opposite could very well be true.
I really think that bloggers should be held to account when they self proclaim something as ‘rubbish’ – after all, it’s only them that says so, and in the majority of cases, it’s an unqualified opinion.
February 12th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Some interesting points raised here.
Personally, I only feature products that I really like. However, that doesn’t mean that everyone will like them or be able to apply them in the same way that I do. So chances are some people may purchase products on my recommendation and not be entirely happy.
I don’t see an end to this kind of ‘new media’ infact this is the tip of the iceberg. In my experience more and more brands are looking into blogging and vlogging and not only dipping there toes into the icy waters but jumping right in. For example. Lancome have just created positions for two well known YouTube vloggers and they will now be the official Lancome Vloggers.
Brands see it as an amazing opportunity to get ‘free’ advertising. Vogue sells 140,000 issues a month and can cost anywhere from 15,000 – 200,000 to advertise in.
Just one of my videos can get 140,000 hits in 5 days and the channel itself gets 1.5 million hits a month. Now multiply that with as many successful blogs as you can find and…Its a no brainer.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Hi,
Interesting piece. I’m not sure how I feel about the negativity towards ‘non-professional’ beauty bloggers. As one (although I still don’t see myself as one really with only 30 subscribers!) I certainly don’t think my opinions could make or break a brand! and indeed, I have only ever written a ‘review’, if you can call it that, from my own personal perspective of ‘this is my skin type/tone/eye colour/what works for me’. I would certainly never try a product, find I didn’t like it then suggest to my subcribers that they should hate it too. In fact, I so far have only written about products that I like, as can only imagine finding enough passionate things to say about something I enjoy, not something I dislike. In addition, I only started my blog to have as a hobby and an outlet to share make-up tips and my passion for make-up – not to be a psuedo journalist. Although I will be doing some training in the summer and will hopefully be able to make a career eventually from working as a MUA, I cannot foresee me making a career out of blogging!
Finally, whilst I appreciate that professionals may be miffed at non-professionals having strong opinions, especially if it’s based on heresay, I feel it’s not fair to suggest that a non-professional’s opinion is less worthy. I have been using make-up on my face for 15 years or more and feel more than qualified to blog about what works on my face! – as long as a non-professional is pitching to other non-professionals in an appropriate manner, I don’t see the problem!
February 16th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Hi Amanda!
Nice to see you on here at last!
The point that I was trying to make was that many (and I did say, not all!) beauty bloggers, who aren’t beauty/makeup professionals are gathering such a following, that they are able to make/break a product purely on their recommendation, or not, as the case may be.
And in many cases, its not the original blogger who trashes the product, but the other blogging buddies who leave comments below, many of whom have got big followings and their words are taken as gospel. I read, only a few days ago, one comment from a ‘guru’ saying ‘I never buy XYZ brand because it looks cardboard and cheap’ with a bunch of her ‘followers’ saying ‘oh, no, I don’t either’ almost sheeplike!
I don’t think non-pros opinions should be less worthy, but taken in context of it being an opinion based on their own skin etc. I said it in the article, and I do agree with you, but I feel that it’s now that non-pros are pitching to everyone, and there are those who are gathering ‘guru’ status where what they say is gospel.
And as Pixiwoo said in her comment above yours, that its a no-brainer for advertising purposes, which is now why its the shame that so many (not all!) bloggers are fitting the ‘let me talk about your product in a fluffy gushy way, then tell you I’m talking about it, and hope you’ll give me a bunch of freebies’ mentality…
To be completely fair, I actually take ‘more seriously’ the bloggers who don’t have such cult followings. We’ve got some forum members here who have blogs, and I love reading what they’re saying. They don’t seem to be talking ‘directly’ to an audience, they’re just saying how they feel. If that makes sense…!
But don’t get me wrong, I don’t dislike blogs, what I was surprised at was that they are now being classed as media…
February 16th, 2010 at 10:01 am
Hi, actually everything you said was what I was thinking, you just said it better!
I suppose I kinda stumbled into the world of blogging and still can’t believe that anyone other than my mum likes to read my blog! I love the way you say “They don’t seem to be talking ‘directly’ to an audience, they’re just saying how they feel” as that was exactly the intention of my blog – it was never started for anyone else other than myself. Many of the ‘real-life’ people in my life don’t get my love for make-up and so I started the blog almost as a way of letting me talk about my hobby without bothering people who really aren’t interested! Kinda like YAYW but for makeup!
I said above I have about 30 followers, which I know is nothing compared to some, but even now I feel hideously responsible for what I say and what they take from that – I suppose I always assumed that people would ‘get’ the direction of where my blog is coming from!
I fully appreciate the whole issue with advertising and can understand why brands would choose to select bloggers to review – I guess that’s the whole underworld that isn’t something I’d be keen to become involved in. I would hope that if anyone ever choose to send me ‘freebies’ I’d be sensible enough to A -make it clear that it was free and B – not succumb to people/pr pleasing!
A xx
February 16th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Oh – I forgot! I left a positive comment yesterday on a ‘bad’ review of a product that I’ve used (and repurchased more than once) for ages and wondered if I’d get lynched for going against the grain! A x
February 16th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
LOL! you’d be amazed at how many more people than you’re Mum read your stuff – the internet is wiiiiide open!
And as for leaving positive comments, go for it! It gives a balanced view. did you put it on here?
Makeup Artist/Beauty writers don’t get it right all the time. I certainly try to test a product on as many people as possible, as do some of the others, but we don’t get it right every time, hence why there’s the comments section!
Anyway, will be lovely to have you on board, feel free to leave reviews, write articles or just join in and have fun!
S x
February 16th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
No, the comment I left was on another blog. A xx
February 16th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
The reason why more and more companies are turning to beauty bloggers to review their products, is mainly because were real women with a passion for make up and skincare. We don’t need a degree in journalism to know whether a product is good and works well for us, were every day REAL woman, who probably have more knowledge about make up and skincare than most professionals because its our passion in life.
You also have no idea how close nit the beauty blogging community is and how our fellow bloggers reviews help us when we are deciding to purchase a product. Most of the products reviewed are actually paid for by our own money, unlike say magazines who get sent products for free and probably don’t even test them, and just write a review to fill up a page.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Make up artists use products that are often higher end so there expectations are going to be higher. I think that makeup artists and bloggers should be equal in the industry but you have to take into consideration the purpose of each individual product. At the end of the day we are all using the products to achieve the same thing so really I don’t think make up artists are any better.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Fact of the matter is that we’re here and we’re here to stay. The numbers of people involved (both bloggers and followers) shows there’s a market for us. I follow all sorts myself, professionals and amateurs. Some are of course rubbish but they equally have a right to express their point of view on a product. I may follow a blogger whose opinion I greatly respect and who I find to be right most of the time, it doesn’t mean I have lost my free will and ability to judge for myself what I like and don’t like, of course there will always be sheep who just dont like something because someone says its crap, but they are everywhere. How many people walk out of make overs or beauty treatments that aren’t great or suitable simply because the 2professional” recommends it? Happens all the time. Get over it.
Fact is many people view bloggers as a friend they can trust. A best mate if you will. And there’s lot to be said for reviews by the woman on the street after all, you cab be fairly sure that if I review something, I’m not beibg paid for it, it’s because I want to.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I think what’s being missed here is a sense of balance about bloggers. While it’s true that there are bad blogs – the ones that get my goat are the ones that say little more than “Look at what I bought, isn’t it pretty?!” but that’s just my personal preference – there are a lot of comments here tarring ALL bloggers with the same brush.
Not fair, and very far from true. There are some terrible “professional” journalists and make up artists. Some journalists say good things about a brand because they’re scared of losing the advertising revenue. Some makeup artists don’t update their skills … but, we’re expected to believe their opinion counts for more, simply because they have a credential …
The hard part is, finding the bloggers, the journalists, and the make up artists who have integrity, skills, *and* knowledge, and a large part of that is down to common sense. Read the blog, and if you don’t like what a person is telling you in it, don’t read it again. There are some amazing blogs out there. There are some amazing people people writing those blogs out there.
And, don’t write off a beauty blogger because of their day job, either. I’m an accountant by trade, but I’ve been involved with makeup, and media for the best part of 20 years. You shouldn’t define a person by their job, and, if you do, good luck to you …
February 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Jo – you’ve just made a load of sweeping statements there –
“were every day REAL woman, who probably have more knowledge about make up and skincare than most professionals because its our passion in life.” so pro artists who spend years and years working for pennies just to break into makeup means that they have no passion and no knowledge?
“Most of the products reviewed are actually paid for by our own money, unlike say magazines who get sent products for free and probably don’t even test them, and just write a review to fill up a page.” So Sam, who owns this site doesn’t buy products for her kit that she then reviews? And just have a look at the ‘product testing’ part of the forum. You’ll see that she is always giving us things to test that she gets sent for free, so no, not all magazines get freebies and make up their reviews.
If you make a sweeping statement, you need to back it up with fact.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
I’m not a blogger, journalist or a make up artist. I’m a make up consumer. I read professional reviews and blog reviews. I get tired of professional review in magazines s that boringly repeat the same stuff that’s on the press release. I get tired of bloggers who do the “look what I buy”. I read the reviews, wherever they are, of people who seem balanced and intelligent. And that’s as likely to be a blogger or anyone else.
I don’t think the blogs I’ve read have ever dismissed a product as “rubbish”. Said it’s not to their taste, doesn’t suit their skin, but not just dismissed it. I think you’re being grossly unfair.
I also prefer to read reviews from non-professional make up artists. Because I believe they’re more likely to use the product the way I do, so their views on ease of use, application and results mean more to me.
I’d never take it as gospel though. Simple example is mascara. My eyelashes are completely white. Most people’s views on mascara are meaningless to me. You say it applies well in one coat? That’s nice MissSootyLashes. I know I’m going to need to do repeated coats. So I won’t know if it works until I try it.
I think you ought to credit women with a little bit more intelligence than you do. We’re smart enough to tell the bad reviews from the good. We’re smart enough to recognise when someone has just regurgitated the crappy press release. And we’re smart enough to recognise superiority complexes when we see them. Now maybe you should look at some blogs with open eyes and realise there are some very intelligent women out there giving valuable advice.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
First of all K, I was aiming the first comment more to journalists. I thought that was obvious. And as for the second comment, since when is this a magazine, that people pay to read? this is a forum. I think you should have payed more attention to my comment and to who my comments were aimed at before you made your pointless reply.
To be honest I think someones nose is just put out of joint a little and someone is a little jealous because beauty bloggers are gaining a hell of a lot more recognition. Not getting sent enough free stuff anymore eh?
February 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Frankly, I think all you pros are being very bitter. I can empathise to some extent that you feel frustrated that non professional bloggers are having their voices heard just as much as yours despite not having any credentials, but bitching about it isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference to the blogging community.
I myself follow over 300 blogs (and write one of my own), and I can honestly say that 99% of the reviews I read say ‘Just because this worked/didn’t work for me doesn’t mean it will/won’t for you!’; delete as applicable. Bloggers, especially those of us who have a reasonably sized following, take care not to mislead people. I know I do, anyway, and I don’t like that you’ve tarred everyone with the same brush.
Regardless, this whole thing is very petty. It’s very much a case of ‘don’t like it, don’t read it’. I don’t think you really care that much about the potential for someone to be misguided in their opinion of products – I think you just care about having your thunder stolen.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Lady Gray, I love your disclaimer – “Lastly, if I say something is fab and you try it and come out in boils, thats not my problem, I’m just an amateur and not a professional advisor. ” genius!
I think the point is being overlooked here. I asked when Blogging became part of The Media and investigated it. I decided to investigate because I met a couple of girls at the IMATS who were wearing press passes and admitted themselves ‘oh we’re not press, we’re bloggers’.
I’m also not saying that bloggers opinions should be dismissed, but that there is a lot of one sided ‘bias’ to how good or bad a product is. And that’s simply down to logisitics. If you have one face that you put products on, you’re only reviewing it on that face, and there is probably a small percentage of the population/world who shares the same facial colour, tone, structure, texture etc that you do.
My point is, that it is not a balanced opinion. Not that it is a wrong opinion, but not a balanced one.
There are many other online magazines like this one, where all the articles are writing by working makeup artists. We aren’t journalists sitting in offices getting overwhelmed with products to feature, advertisers to keep happy and deadlines to meet. We too, are passionate about makeup, but the difference is, that we write from a journalistic point of view, ie, we look at how a product works on lots of different skins, eye colours, etc and suggest that it might be better/worse for some than others.
I’m also not going to give examples of where I’ve seen products trashed. a) because I disagree with them so don’t want to further the ‘bad press’ and b) why should I promote them! Let them do their own PR!!
February 16th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
I have to agree with the comments from Get Lippie.
I feel that the range and balance across beauty blogs has not been recognised, any blogger worth their lipstick knows that their view on a product isn’t the be-all and end-all. It’s just another view, very much like when you ask a friend about their experience. That’s very much what many blogs are striving to acheive, human reviews to help consumers be informed when they look for beauty products.
Personally, that’s all I see myself as – a passionate consumer. One who puts alot of time, effort and dedication into something that I love doing. Sure, maybe I am fickle – but so are most of the beauty consumers out there who buy into the latest trends, colours and launches and generally keep the make-up industry as prosperous as it is and of course keep generating traffic to sites such as this.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
I think that you have forgotten that beauty bloggers represent the real views of real consumers: for most blogging is a pleasurable (if time consuming) hobby, but beauty brands are getting the purest form of feedback possible from blogs and if everyone find a product poor, then maybe it actually is. You cannot compare blogs to beauty journalism – they are entirely different forms of media but neither are less valid than the other. I have a foot in either camp as both blogger and professional beauty writer – we are a close knit blogging community in the UK – and I would say many bloggers know their products inside out in a way that would shock the brands. This level of knowledge is borne of a passion for their subject. Again, most beauty bloggers are able to form their own opinion of a product and don’t need other blogger’s approval to love or hate. Beauty is a constant variable: what suits one doesn’t suit another necessarily. If, as beauty consumers, their views are considered invalid because they aren’t professional, what then does that say about brands and their attitude to their consumers. It is self explanatory. As for larger brands, such as MAC, they do indeed embrace blogging. They have a dedicated Facebook page as their social media outlet and this is visited by many beauty bloggers. Nobody asked them to set it up, they just did and if you dive into social media then really you need to welcome all comers. I think the shock of the frankness of blogs will become less impactful over time and we are in a period of adjustment and learning. Brands have never been under such stringent scrutiny and it is a hard learning curve. Your comments that you looked at a couple of blogs and found they churn out long reviews without saying much is a shame really because these blogs are personal to those writing them and if people are reading them then it is because they want to read exactly that type of review. Women in particular have never had such an open forum and a ‘right to reply’ with the beauty brands they buy and it is high time that it happened. I am sure you would be the first to be fuming if the expensive face cream that promised a miracle gave you little more than hives. Where else could you tell others about your experience. Brands are having to sit up and take notice – and regarding OCC – yes, everyone loves their Lip Tars but maybe the minerals don’t actually live up to the claims? That is good feedback. You can fly the ‘professional’ flag as high as you like with your review but unfortunately a superior attitude won’t wash. You should perhaps read more blogs and consider the time and effort that goes into them and see how much product knowledge is out there before making sweeping generalisations. BBBX
February 16th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Very interesting points. Most of what I was going to say has been said already but I will make this point…
This article hasn’t angered me like it has with most other bloggers because I agree to an extent about what you have said. But you are forgetting that these blogs are not written for professional use, and are not designed for professional makeup artists.
From personal experience, I write my blog because I am interested in not just makeup, but hair care, skin care and so forth. I don’t claim to know everything about makeup etc, but it is something I am interested in, and my blog is a little outlet for me. I can safely say that 99.9% of other bloggers will share the same view, too.
The majority (well, the blogs I read) do not claim to be professionals and only speak from their own PERSONAL experience. They do not claim (or shouldn’t claim) to have tried to the product on x amount of faces over a period of time, the review is purely based on their experiences and thoughts. In a time where money is tight, it is helpful for the average consumer to gain a little info and thought (via blogs) about a product before they spend their hard earned cash.
I agree that bloggers shouldn’t use and abuse their ‘status’ in order to bring companies down – we all know that viral marketing is the most effective form of marketing to some extent, but you must remember that every person has a brain, and they are more than capable of deciding whether or not to choose to buy something whether somebody said it is good or not. If somebody decides not to buy something based on 2 or 3 bad reviews, then I agree, it is very sheeplike.
Overall, my point is you’re looking at blogs from a professional makeup artist point of view – the majority of blog readers, are not.
Ask yourself this, if you weren’t a makeup artist and just an average consumer, were fed up of gushing reviews from magazines about how wonderful X product is, yet when you try it it doesn’t work for you, would you not find it helpful to get an opinion from someone just like yourself before wasting your hard earned cash?
February 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
I think that your point is understood by most of us but the tone has raised some hackles.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Well I for one, am sick of beauty bloggers racing to be the first to talk about the new product as if it’s some sort of competition to be the first in the know.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
oh and do you all qualify as journalists then? as part of the British Media?
February 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
I find blogs really helpful. I find them more trust worthy over say a magazine or so called “professionals” who are so far removed from what the customer wants, and are only saying products are good in order to not annoy the advertisers. You don’t have to read these blogs if you don’t like them.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Jane> No, I don’t consider my blog to be media it’s my opinion of stuff. I don’t even consider this forum to be media, to be honest. It’s just opinions, much like any blog … albeit from someone “in the industry”.
However, I have worked for several national daily newspapers, so I am *very* much part of the British Media. Journalists do not always write gospel, it’s not in their interest, and it’s rarely in the publication’s interest, for them to do so.
Blogs may one day be media. But that doesn’t mean that there won’t be room for opinions from all.
I do agree with some of the points made in the article, as it happens, but I think there was an appalling lapse of balance on the author’s behalf. For shame.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
I don’t have any respect for articles or reviews in magazines any more. I realized never EVER are they actual review but only promos of the products, and then I learned that the writes get paid by the companies…. now is that a real review?
February 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
This is a bit unfair I think. Bloggers are awesome in the sense that they give personal reviews. That’s actually what people want because professionals will hardly ever tar the image of a product. I’ve never opened a magazine and seenvwhere a product got a bad review.
As for IMATS, beauty bloggers count as press. Didn’t you notice how many people attended the show? You think that was the work of the media? Please open up your mind the world of endless possibilities of bloggers. There will be thousands soon and to me, nothing is better than seeing a thousand (tried and tested) opinions of a product.
I happen to be a doctor in the making, a professional make-up artist (with qualifications), an entrepreneur and a beauty blogger. I have a continuous hectic rota at the hospital but I would still class myself as an insider. Having a separate daytime job does not equal rubbish blogger! You need to get that straight!
By the way the blog you have just dissected does not just ‘talk for the sake of talking’. you should realise that what most people want to know is the latest trend. Beauty bloggers are here to stay, let the consumer do the deciding not fellow press.
I’m sure we can work together for good…
February 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
you bunch of sad women. Get out and get a job with makeup if you’re that passionate about it all.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
I’m a beauty blogger too, though not in the same league as all the posters above, but I have to say, it’s the same group of girls here who are all in a little clique, the so called ‘close knit’ community.
You’re all repeating yourselves over and over again. One person writes about a new product, then the next one and then the next one. Its actually quite boring.
By no means do I agree with all of Sam’s points, but I do agree with most of them. And no, I don’t think bloggers should qualify as media or press
February 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
So a regular, Joe Schmoe person outside of the professional industry can’t have an informed opinion? I get WHY you’re saying that they might not know every facet of what they’re discussing, but that’s actually why I PREFER those blogs to the ones put out by the company or other professionals affiliated with them. I’m a lot more trusting that a regular person like myself is going to give it to me as they see it, rather than a pro that may or may not be in the pockets of the very company they’re reviewing.
Do I take everything I read in a blog for certain and make snap judgments based just on their words? Of COURSE not. But I value their opinions and their honesty more than most pros, to be completely honest. Too many times I’ve been hoodwinked by someone who “knows” what they’re talking about, only to find the product is nowhere near what they promised.
You don’t need to be a professional or know everything to have an opinion. Basically, I agree 100% with what Caroline said above me.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
I don’t want to read your opinion on cosmetics. Your needs as a MUA are different to mine. Despite what you obviously think (as an expert), I absolutely want to hear about the ‘latest and greatest’ products on the market and I want to know what cosmetics are kicking up a storm in the beauty world. The beauty world of my peers, and one that I find infinitely more accessible.
If granting bloggers the privilege of unrestricted access to events such as IMATS brings them under the umbrella of “Media” then so be it. Their opinions (and mine) are frankly hugely valid regardless of how journalistic their style of writing may or may not be. And as for their approach, far purer than any journalist. You mention ‘blogging for freebies’ – any blogger that values their freebies more than their readers are pretty easy to spot. When they realise how much effort is needed to maintain the quality required to keep their readers returning day after day, their blogs tend to fall by the wayside pretty quickly. It’s fairly self-regulating in my experience!
And to the commenter who likened this ‘new media’ to TV being piped into our brains. How foolish. Responding to blogs and commenting on posts such as this one is incredibly interactive, quite the opposite of the passive media consumption you describe.
Plenty of blogs talk about ‘core’ products and neutral eye shadows. Perhaps you’ve mostly discovered blogs that are aimed at a younger audience who would (of course) be more interested in reading about the latest bright/garish shades of shadows on the market. Beauty blogging is fluid, ever-changing and yes, fickle… and by that very nature couldn’t represent the ‘people’ more effectively if it tried.
You keep emphasising that your ‘point’ is being missed, To be blunt, I’m struggling to see it through the vitriol that you’ve unleashed on a couple of well-respected female bloggers.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
This boils down to one thing; I think you’ve slightly missed the point of blogging. No it’s not a personal diary, nor is it a professional magazine. It is somewhere in between. Blogs are born out of passion for both writing and beauty and the reason that people read them is because bloggers don’t claim to be journalists; they are consumers who are voicing their opinion.
Aren’t consumers the most important people in the retail chain? Don’t their opinions matter more than a magazine editor or makeup artist? OK, so if Pat McGrath turned around and told me that i must try such and such a product, I certainly would. But if the consumers as a whole think the product is just no good, doesn’t that stand for so much more?
Also, it is very important not to underestimate bloggers. Good beauty blogs are written by women who are intelligent, charismatic and trustworthy. Many ARE written by industry professionals, but that again is besides the point.
I personally, would always rather read a long review of a product on a blog than check a short line in a a magazine which is only there because of advertiser relationships.
And yes, of course blogs are part of the media. Last time I checked, the definition of media is a means of communication which reaches a wide audience.
I also wanted to point out that you can’t complain about the bloggers you are mentioning loosely disguising their complaints about Benefit. Anyone who is involved in the blogging community will figure out who the bloggers you are talking about here are.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
I went to the IMATs too, I enjoyed it and I paid for my ticket myself. I did meet up with some bloggers who I’d got to know through the web, and all they were doing was checking who’d got the most freebies…. now that’s sad.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Oh and also forgot to say that many bloggers were invited by IMATS and issued press passes for want of a more accurate category of visitor. I had a press pass (because I am press) and took another blogger with me to cover what I couldn’t and she therefore had a legitimate pass. I am sure if IMATS had offered Blogger passes then that wouldn’t have been a problem. But, they didn’t. This year, IMATS was the best attended it has ever been and – do check with them – this was in part caused by the huge pre-event buzz by bloggers and ticket sales to bloggers. The fact that the bloggers you encountered immediately said they weren’t press, but bloggers, surely tell you there is no presumption to being part of mainstream media, but more a legitimate media in their own right.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
This is really interesting. I am not a blogger *or* a journalist – but I’m interested in how citizen-media is “threatening” real media.
I read a few blogs, and I have to say, there are some great ones. Take Lollipop26 for beauty, or Susie Bubble for fashion – very different in style, but they’re both very thorough and I think they strike a good balance between idiosyncratic personal opinions and amazing product knowledge. Are they the exception? Perhaps. There certainly are lots of blogs out there that are blatantly in it for the freebies. “I got invited to a *super* new event by Barry M!!!!!!!!!!!!! And look at the goodie bag I got!!!!!!!!! You should buy it all now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”. Zzzzzz.
However, I do think bad/lazy/freebie hungry bloggers are only part of the problem. Beauty and fashion journalism has to shoulder some of the blame. Too often, beauty journalism is no better – how many times have you seen a 50 word “We’re just loving the new face cream from blah de blah!!” to fill space in a mag? There’s obviously an appetite for in depth tutorials and detailed makeup reviews – the mags aren’t providing it, so people turn to blogs and the internet.
Generally I like beauty blogs and youtube channels that are run by pro make up artists. It seems to me the nearest we’ve got to a happy compromise in an imperfect world.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that make up is bought by REAL WOMEN. If you expected a company to survive solely on what a make up artist purchased they would very quickly go under.
These ‘make up junkies’ are using the products as companies intended – everyday, to make themselves look and feel better
February 16th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
from a professional makeup artist’s point of view, I actually take little view of what the ‘core’ bloggers say. Apart from the fact that I have to be a member of blogspot/blogger etc in order to leave a comment, which I have no interest in doing, what I actually want to read are views of other pros who have used products on a variety of ways.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
I’m a beauty PR and whilst it’s nice to see great things written about our products, its laughable to see so many bloggers with ‘if you want to send me your stuff…’
If you want us to send you stuff, come and find out who we are and approach us with a good reason as to why we should.
I actually like the way that Sam and the other reviewers write. Some of them are general consumers, much like bloggers I suppose, and some are professionals who look at the product from both a professional point of view and a consumer point of view.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
This attitude is exactly why professional bloggers are afraid to refer to themselves as such. I am a professional journalist with a English/journalism degree with experience in print media. But I chose to make the switch to new media – which I think is very much defined by blogs. While I am an editor at an “online magazine” I honestly don’t see the big difference between the work I do for that and the work I do for blogs. I write with the same professional integrity and journalistic standards if in a bit more casual tone as befits the medium. I am compensated as a professional freelancer. So I would say that yes, blogging is the new media (and might add a “duh” in my “casual blogger tone”.) It’s very frustrating for bloggers such as myself to, for instance in line to check in backstage at the Carolina Herrera fashion show at New York Fashion Week the other day, hear the PR girl say that they never allow in .coms. Interestingly, they had approved guest lists for their beauty suppliers which consisted of many many bloggers and online journalists. One of whom was MAC, which you seem to have your facts wrong about. They are VERY supportive of online media and invited several bloggers backstage to all of the shows they participated in at NYFW. All of their makeup artists have twitter accounts and their PR is very active on twitter as well. They are one of my most reliable companies in terms of receiving timely press information and samples.
Also, in terms of reviewing what is “new” how is that different than traditional media? Most beauty blog readers already know about the foundations of their favorite companies, and want to hear about the products they haven’t seen or tried yet.
I very, very much value the opinion of makeup artists and beauty professionals who also happen to be bloggers, they have a very unique and useful voice. But you do realize that most professional beauty journalists who I assume you would respect – writers for Vogue and Allure, etc etc etc, are journalists and writers, not makeup artists? So it is not odd that members of the new media are also journalists, not necessarily beauty professionals.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Are none of you seeing the point that Sam made is coming clear here?
There are only a few of you who are actual professional journalists/makeup artists who are responding. The rest of you are non pros who are shouting ‘but our point of view counts’. Therefore, Sam’s point that there are few professional artists/writers/bloggers out there and the rest of you a shouting to be heard.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
There is a real click in the blogging world. someone else said it was close knit (that’s knit, not nit) community. Course it is, you all follow each other and all reply on each other’s blogs and all say the same thing over and over again.
And woe betide anyone who doesn’t agree with the ‘main’ ones.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
“So is blogging the new media? Well it would appear that we’re going that way, but perhaps its time to take more seriously, the blogger who has a professional background to what she’s saying, rather than the one that talks the most and the loudest, often with not a lot of content.”
hear hear! I want quality, not quantity!
February 16th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Yes, blogging is the new media.
What, exactly, constitutes a “professional” makeup artist? I know in the U.S. there are lots of makeup courses and programs but none are required to call someone a professional. What would be a “professional” way of applying foundation? Is there a formula for this? I’m just getting this ridiculous feeling that the term “professional” is supposed to make people think there is some magical knowledge that makeup artists have and regular people can only dream of. Some people may have a little more skill in this area but we aren’t talking about brain surgery here.
“I write with a journalistic approach. When I review a product, I talk about it from both a professional point of view, and from a personal point of view. I talk about the good and bad points of a product and my articles have a start, a discussion, and a conclusion.”—I’ve seen this very same strategy used by beauty bloggers.
“I’m going to add a further disclaimer here, I am going to generalise and talk about beauty bloggers in the main, though I do know that there are exceptions to the rule, however, most non professional (non makeup artist/beauty professionals) bloggers are relatively fickle.”—I could rework this statement to suit my opinion that, although I do know that there are exceptions to the rule, most professional beauty journalists are relatively fickle and only provide glowing product reviews for their advertisers.
Also, I think skin types fall into the following categories: Very Dry, Dry, Slightly Dry, Normal, Slightly Oily, Oily and Very Oily. Combination skin is experiencing dryness in some areas and oiliness in others. Sensitivity can happen in anyone of these skin types. So, if an individual with oily skin reviews a foundation and has a bad experience with it sliding off their face then I think it’s safe to say lots of people with oily skin will feel the same way. Not necessarily a tiny fraction of the population. So it really wouldn’t matter if they tried the foundation on people with dry skin bc that is not the issue they are addressing.
I know of very few makeup artists who know the actual performance of the ingredients contained in makeup. They know the marketing spiel of the ingredients. But when it comes down to actual fact, I find that chemists and dermatologists have a better handle on that. I highly recommend more makeup artists look up Paula Begoun and her work in debunking beauty myths.
By the way, I worked in a makeup studio for a year and have free-lanced for about 5 years.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
This is all very interesting. I blog about makeup, just because through blogs I have found a bunch of people that like makeup same as I do, I am curious to see what they use/think/like, same way as I do.
I do follow MUA blogs as well. I am not a professional, but I do like quality reliable stuff, and professionals’ high standards are to be acknowledged. That’s as long as they are not paid by a certain brand to use their own products, the same as my hairdresser thinks the products she sells are fantastic and nothing else in the world comes as close because she works in a Salon that has a contract with Toni and Guy.
I am what I consider an informed person. I am well aware that everyone has a different skin/facial traits/complexion/likes/dislikes as far as makeup is concerned. And I will never make an opinion on what I read in a blog. I might just decide whether I will think about trying the item myself or if this is not an item that I think is for me. Because there are just so many products to check out, I wouldn’t know where to start if they were all displayed in front of me.
I don’t fall for advertisement — full stop. Same as I don’t believe the enhanced virtues of products on TV and magazine ads (especially the airbrushed ones), I won’t take word for word a blogger who goes “I got sent this to review” because if you want freebies to keep coming you’re not going to hammer a product you don’t like but you got sent free, because if other companies see that they won’t send their stuff. And I do agree with the American law (I believe) asking to state the source of the products. Because that completely changes the perspective of the blogger.
I don’t do begging. I only review things that I have bought and used.
I was approached by Skin MD, they came across my blog, and asked me if I’d review one of their products. They even offered to do a giveaway for me. This was the first time I got interest from a company (but then I am a fairly new blogger). So I thought Why not? Got my stuff. And honestly thought it was rubbish. So yes, I will make a review in due time, truthful to my feelings. But first I will wait for all the bloggers I follow and who I share mutual following with to finish doing their own review of the stuff… and guess what? Most of them liked the product ! Nevermind it’s supposed to be good for really bad skin condition, I really don’t know why they’re sending it to beauty bloggers who, like me, need to find a bit of dry skin to try it on, only then to find out that we can’t really experience the miraculous virtues of the product because we just haven’t got the bad skin it’s supposed to work on. What’s the point !!?? It gives them cheap exposure that’s what it is… and that’s why blogging is the new media. It’s accessing another section of the population – the ones that use blogging like a little “community”. Why pay thousands of pounds to put an ad in a magazine, that people flick through without really noticing, when they can target people that like to talk beauty stuff and are surely a better target ? So try and get your product into blogs and suddenly, because “everybody loves it” you get lots of easily influenced people to buy your stuff. Very good marketing technique methinks !
Because at the end of the day, that’s all that matters… how much income they can make out of a few freebies… and the ratio must be quite good I expect !
Everything’s like a movie — some critics will like it… some won’t… but you won’t know whether you like it or not until you’ve watched it yourself !
February 16th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
I speak from both a MUA’s (14 yrs experience to be precise) and a bloggers point of view. I write a blog and will continue to because no-one is harmed in the process. I find it a bit of a shame that most of the points made in this article will be over-looked because of the tone it was written in. That in itself is bad journalism! Blogs are an important part of the industry because they are so accessable, they’re no worse than forums or ‘online magazines’ which are all opinions anyway! I, as a make-up artist learn something new every single day. I am no doubt technically better at make-up application than a non make-up artist, that’s to be expected, but she may well teach me something new about mixing shades or textures that I’d never have thought of. That is why I read blogs!
My final point is this. I was once told by a very esteemed and well known artist that make-up, as much as we adore it, argue about it and let it cause these debates, is just lipstick and powder. We’re hardly curing disease or poverty, we’re just making it prettier. Can’t we all just relax and get along?!
February 16th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
I’m sorry that your experience with beauty blogs was less than satisfying. While I do agree there are too many bloggers out there who are just blogging for popularity/free stuff and don’t know much about what they’re talking about, there are also bloggers who have been into makeup for years, and while we don’t have any professional training, we have gained no small amount of experience through time, trial-and-error, and just money spent on our makeup obsession. It is that personal experience that we wish to share with the world. And for every blogger who is just out there sample-grabbing and name-dropping, there is another blogger who knows what she’s talking about.
I’d also like to point out that you mention that bloggers tend to focus on the ‘latest’ cult offerings. I have to admit this is true, but again since blogging is fundamentally reader-driven, I’d like to say that bloggers focus so much on the latest items because that is what consumers want to read. Bloggers ultimately are driven by what their readers want, and due to the interactive nature of blogging we get feedback and requests for specific posts much more than a traditional media outlet, so this is why there is a difference in what traditional media and bloggers cover. I do try to do posts on foundation, skin tone etc, though, and believe me that is an area of interest for me, but since readers are more interested in seeing photos of the latest offerings (don’t forget blogging, in addition to being reader-driven, is also a very visual medium), I try to strike a balance. I do agree, though, that no matter what you cover, you have to know what you’re covering – not trying out a product and then trashing it is not good whether you’re a blogger or a traditional journalist, but trust me, not all bloggers are like this.
I guess you’re right in saying we aren’t makeup artists – I would never dare call myself one, but what we are (and I guess here I’m speaking for myself and the bloggers I do know) are girls with an obsession and a passion for what we blog about. And our passion is what we hope to share with the world at the end of the day.
February 16th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
The key for our “consumer society” to work is information. It is up to the consumer which information he/she will take in. I follow quite a few blogs and youtube channels, and I know whose opinion I can “trust”. I am not stupid and I do not believe everything I hear (or anyone). And of course there is probably not a single product in the world that would suit most people: a product recommended by a MU artist can be great or it can be crap; in my opinion. But at the end of the day it’s me who has to try it and see if it works. For me.
And of course the same goes for reviews of beauty bloggers, youtubers. I still have to try a product and see if it works for me.
February 16th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Although I appreciate what many of you are saying, the point still comes back to there being a difference between professional journalism, for which people study for years, and the rest of us who are simply writing on our observations and experiences. It’s a bit like me telling someone how to carry out heart surgery just because I’ve seen Dr Nick doing it on the Simpsons.
Sadly, I think there are too many people out in the big wide world who are very easily influenced, thankfully outnumbered by those if us who have a brain and CAN think for ourselves.
I do find it difficult to give any amount of credence to anyone who resorts to petty insults simply because they don’t like someone else’s point of view though.
February 16th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
So many responses, and so many points of view.
I have been on and offline all afternoon, and have ‘approved’ comments as soon as I’ve been able to, so to the twitterer who said that I was ‘heavily moderating’ was rather assumptive, I was out and the other administrators don’t have full access to here! And if I was moderating, I don’t think I’d have approved everything would I? That would be bias…
I will also be away from my desk for most of the evening, so feel free to comment, but I won’t be approving anything til I return tomorrow, again, not heavily moderating, just having some time away from work.
I just want to clear up a couple of points. I’m not anti blog, I never have been, I never will be, I find them fascinating, I jump about from blog to blog, looking at all sorts, I follow links and trails and threads and allsorts. I end up on youtube, I end up on other blogs, I end up on newspaper sites, I end up on magazine sites, sometimes, I even find myself back on here. I end up everywhere. The world wide web is very much that, an interlocked web.
I also want to clarify what I mean when I say ‘professional’. I mean a makeup artist. someone who uses a variety of products on a variety of faces, not necessarily an officially ‘trained’ makeup artist, there are many famous/celebrity self taught artists, but someone who uses makeup in a professional capacity.
So the beauty blogger who is a pro makeup artist may well have used a product on 20 people of various skin types and textures etc, before giving a review, rather than a non-makeup artist blogger who has only tested it on themselves. It’s not about saying ‘pro makeup artists know better,’ nor is it about pros being technically better (or perhaps worse…) its about having an opinion based on trialling/using a product on lots of different faces.
that is simply my point. non pro makeup artist bloggers are being turned into the modern media and some of them have such a cult following that what they say is taken as gospel, yet there are other blogs, written by pro makeup artists that are ignored or their opinion dismissed, just because it doesn’t agree with the guru bloggers.
February 16th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
In which case, I would say that those bloggers who interact with other blogs, check their stats to see what people most like to read about and respond accordingly and use twitter as a way to befriend and communicate are the ones whose blogs will be more well read. When I started my blog I spent hours and hours reading and commenting on other blogs, forums and communities – I cannot tell you how many hours were racked up doing this. Consequently, others read my comments and checked out my blog which is why I now have readers. You can’t say ‘nobody reads my blog’ legitimately unless you’ve helped people to actually find it and you are prepared to participate in what is a very active, and very friendly mostly, blogging community. It is unrealistic to expect people to just stumble upon you. If people don’t read as much as you’d like you have to jump in and join the party….professional make up artist or not. And, incidentally, Lisa Eldridge is a great example of a professional make up artist who does join in with everyone and doesn’t expect others to come running to her. Active participation changes everything.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
http://www.ubervu.com/conversations/makeupadviceforum.com/2010/02/is-blogging-the-new-media/
ha ha ha ha ha!
don’t you all look stupid now – twitter never lies…
and funnily enough, all you little girls who are having a good old moan in twitter land amongst yourselves, well, when I read your blogs, most of them, with only a few exceptions, mention how you’ve been invited to this launch or that launch, or you’ve received this or that…
February 16th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
My comment was made at 3.34pm, should be inbetween Megan and DinkyLondon. I can’t see why I would have been ‘censored’. Could you check why I didn’t get the chance to air my views?
I can repost if necessary, but don’t want to spam your board with duplicate comments.
Thanks.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
this is a load of crap.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
MakeupFan, whats so funny? Is Twitter not for chatting about stuff? Nearly every single post on that link you showed, comes across as more adult, thoughtful, and intelligent than those three sentences you just typed.
ha ha ha ha ha!
don’t you look stupid now!
February 16th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
It’s been really interesting to read all the comments on here as I’m new to blogging. I have a few of the attributes mentioned in other posts, (qualified makeup artist/freelancer, beauty assistant and currently doing a journalism qualification) but to be honest the only thing I think someone who writes a blog requires is an interesting style of writing and the ability to produce quality content.
I think internet-related media is definitely going to continue growing, and so is the number of the blogs. Blogs are great because we all get to be ‘journalists’ whether we are qualified to be or not, and allows us an opportunity to voice our opinions and be published in our own right – I don’t necessarily agree when people say that they only write blogs for themselves, if that was true surely it wouldn’t be published on an international and freely accessible medium like the internet?!
It is unfortunate if some blogs are having a detrimental effect on certain beauty brands or if there’s bitchiness between rival bloggers, but unfortunately when blogs are free, so easy to use and open to all there are going to be people who take advantage of this in different ways.
I think it’s great that blogs are getting some recognition (congratulations to brit beauty blogger for her nomination for an award) and some press attention – look at Tavi being front row at the Marc Jacobs show, who’d have thought?! If anything it shakes things up and keeps things interesting, who knows how blogs will have an impact on fashion/beauty/lifestyle over the next few years?!
Regarding beauty products featured in magazines, speaking from personal experience of the publication I work for which is independent, we decide what we want to feature because we’ve used it for 10 years/been sent and tested it/been recommended it from a reliable authority, not all magazines succumb to being paid to promote products – I think it’s best to not be totally cynical about beauty features in magazines, the more information available on cosmetics the better! x
February 17th, 2010 at 12:01 am
MakeupFan – Please don’t talk like that, there’s really no need. We are not ‘little girls’ we are grown women, and there’s onyl one person who comes across as childish when you speak like that. There’s no need for this to be quite so personal is there?
And of course we were talking about this over Twitter, it is a provoking debate and I am sure that Sam was aware that her feature would cause a reaction amongst the beauty bloggers; how could it not? I don’t see that there’s any problem in it – bloggers are wholly involved in social media after all.
As for mentioning products we’ve received it’s called disclosure, and, other than it being plain good practice for the sake of open, turstworthy blogging, is now an FTC rule in the states and worth noting over here too. Yes, there are the bloggers who are out there for freebies, but PRs are generally aware of them and readers will pick it up quickly too. You do need to be aware of the blaggers – but it doesn’t mean we are all like that.
In addition, of course companies will want to send products out to a blogger who can reach hundreds if not thousands of readers per day. A pro MUA will certainly know how to use it better, but that doesn’t mean anything to a company which is trying to increase product awareness and drive sales.
February 17th, 2010 at 12:16 am
Until very recently, I was a curator rather than a creator when it came to online activity. I follow a wide range of blogs and some of those are beauty based because I love make-up.
I enjoy the immediacy of blogs – for example, I know the latest MAC collection will be reviewed in a number of places as soon as it’s out in the US, whereas I can buy a glossy magazine and see a ‘review’ for a product that was LE from MAC three months before and thus no longer available in store. This just makes me snigger at the ineptitude.
I also get fed up with blogs that just showcase the author’s spending habits or that churn out the same old guff about PR events and goody bags. Just as with the out-of-date product reviews in the print media, I simply stop reading these blogs. There is good and bad in both old and new media.
I am not a professional make-up artist so I don’t need to know the details about things like which airbrush system works best or has the smallest, quietest compressor. I’ll happily read that info on MUA blogs, and be impressed by the author’s skills but as a make-up fan who does her own face and occasionally those of friends, I like to know which eyeshadow primer works well, which cleansing oil gets off all your mascara and to see the swatches from the hotly awaited new Urban Decay palette.
I am a new beauty blogger but I am not a beauty journalist. I am a qualified journalist though. Where does that leave me?
February 17th, 2010 at 12:27 am
Consumers as a whole are becoming savvier and blogs are the result of this. If there is a product that catches my eye I will research it, especially if it is an expensive product. I read reviews on beauty blogs, ciao, makeup alley and any other publication I come across. Do I think beauty bloggers reviews are bias? Maybe…but even a professional makeup artist will not be without bias for that is just the nature of people.
Obviously there is a demand for non-professional opinions on products otherwise beauty blogs would just cease to exist – who wants to write if no one’s going to read?
Professional opinions are important – but not as relevant to the average consumer. After all, the average consumer won’t have the same expertise, time or equipment to use the makeup in the same way – for example, what you might think is an amazing foundation might not work the same for someone who slaps it on 20 minutes before they go to work without a professional primer underneath.
I think with your whole post you’re making the assumption that consumers are idiots and will accept whatever they’re told regardless of the information’s source.
Consumers care what other consumers think and share their opinions – this is exactly what companies want! Bloggers are honestly a marketers dream – think of all the time and money that marketing departments spend trying to get customer feedback– beauty bloggers ARE the target market and hand this information to them on a plate! So what if a product gets a few shoddy reviews – I’ve read very few blogs which completely slate a product and most make it very clear that it’s just their opinion and that they’re not a professional. Most bloggers care about their credibility and readers have more integrity than you realise.
I’d probably feel the same if I was in your situation but just realise that there is room for both professionals and non-professionals in the beauty world. Blogs/twitter/youtube are 100% media and they’re only going to become more important – embrace it, it’s not like you can do much to change it!
February 17th, 2010 at 4:53 am
I agree wholeheartedly with BritishBeautyBlogger.
Sam, you sound like you’ve just travelled to the future from 2002. Most, if not all of your comments regarding the state of the blogosphere are completely outdated. They’re practically carbon-dated. I’m afraid the only effect of your article has been to demonstrate your ignorance of the interwebz.
Your sweeping generalisations about beauty bloggers (e.g. “What they all talk about is the ‘latest thing’ that’s on the market, new ‘cult’ lip products or wacky eye colours”) are patently untrue of most of the beauty blogs I’ve read recently, and if anything only reflect your poor research skills, not to mention the fact that you are out of touch with what other people are talking about in your field.
Also, forgetting for a moment your qualifications as a make-up artist – in what way do you think MAF, as a “recognised online magazine”, is more valid as press than an equally popular, monetised, well established beauty blog? You started out as a message board, for crying out loud.
(By the way, just to clear up something else you’re mistaken about – online magazines are not at all a new concept, as you stated. They have been around for a long, long time).
February 17th, 2010 at 6:04 am
I am both a MUA and a blogger, though my blog is more fashion/nail related than cosmetic.
I disagree with you. Bloggers serves as non profesionals relating opinions to other non profesionals. It makes great sense. If I am looking at changing conture powder for my work kit then I will look for other MUA opinions, however if I am looking for a fun new eye shadow for my personal look well I trust my friends who use those products in that manner.
These Beauty bloggers are a girlfriend extention. If someone is looking for a good foundation or cover up to conceal a scar, they come to me. If that same person is looking for a metallic fuschia eye liner they call their friends who will not be using it profesionally but personally as they will.
You made the point yourself when you call the “in” colors funky. A 19 year old college student looking for fun makeup to play around with dramaric looks is not going to trust and uptight MUA who thinks green eye shadow with pink shimmer is funky and that neutrals are fabulous, she’ll trust a 22 year old blogger/college student who thinks along the same lines as she.
In all honesty you come across as a snitty MUA/”journalist” who’s toes have been stepped on by someone they think is less entitled then themself.
But I am no journalist/writer, only a MUA for 18 years with a portfolio that is amazing and a fun blog that I enjoy.
February 17th, 2010 at 6:14 am
How can you claim to be a ‘Journalist’ when you do not do any quality and statisticly relevent fact checking?
How many blogs did you look at 10, 20, 30. because i can tell it was not even close to one percent of what is out there. Mac tends to get a lot of play time on blogs, because they send out samples to blogs and because they are constantly churning out new items. Bobbi brown also gets a TON of play time on blogs, mostly her eyeshadows and her foundations.
What about UDPP? that became a cult favorite becuase of blogers, and i am going to assume you think primer is a staple.
Also, showing your twitter feed does not prove that you are correct at all. The people that follow you on twitter to some degree hold the same view as you. There are large amounts of people (kinda like me) who do not follow you on twitter because we think you have nothing valuble to say.
The main reason many people would prefer a non-makeup artist opinion is because there comments on a product are not being motivated by there desire to sell that product for income.
Maybe you should look more into what the majority of people out there are looking for and are intrested in. You should also probably learn how to use the archive features on other blogs. You would probably find that they do review foundations.
I am not a makeup bloger, that is not why i am so offended. However i am a blogger. And much of blogging is oppinion. I write a personal finance blog. and while i do have methods that i use to save money i do not them to work for everyone. You could proabably learn from this. Just because you have tested it on more faces does not mean it will work any better for me, because the fact is you probably have not tested it on me, so your review is just that a review. your oppinion. and just because you work in the makeup industry does not mean it should hold more sway.
Also, MAF is not a magazine, it is a blog just with multiple blogers. (kinda like wisebread is in the financial community) stop altering the name of what this web page is to try and give your self more authority.
February 17th, 2010 at 6:17 am
and just a side note.. true journalism is suposed to be un-biased.
Your article is certianly biased being that you are a makeup artist. This is not even close to journalism. if you want to see what journalism is look at a site like assosiated press.
Real journalism is simply suposed to give the facts, not draw conclusions from them
you not only did not give facts but you also drew conclusions from what apears to be nothing.
February 17th, 2010 at 8:23 am
While I am not a professional makeup artist, I believe that most of us who ARE blogging about beauty products,and who read each other’s blogs, have the understanding that we truly are not experts. That being said, I still know that it is a free country, and the last time I checked Bill of Rights, I have the right to free speech, which includes “blogging.” I also know to take at face value some of the things I read from other bloggers. Most of us are expressing our opinions(and everyone has one). Also, it is important to remember that we are not necessarily blogging about large makeup conglomerates like Estee Lauder,MAC,Benefit,etc. Some of us don’t like what’s out there in the department stores,and some of us do. And for some of us we choose to exercise our rights to purchase alternative products like Independent mineral makeup brands, that are run and owned by small business women and men.
February 17th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Since you apparently are not moderating comments, here’s the one I posted yesterday which miraculously disappeared, so you can post it now and show how fair you are.
As one of the girls you met at IMATS, and one of the writers for the blog you have been so derisive about, I’m saddened to see that you believe that we “don’t actually say very much”. To the contrary, we say quite a good deal, all based on our own opinion, which is as valid as anyone else’s – even yours!
The point you seem to have missed about the value of blog content is that (in some instances) it comes directly from the consumer – companies get to see what customers actually think of their product, and other consumers get a variety of opinions about products before they purchase.
Sweeping generalisations, by the way, such as “most non professional (non makeup artist/beauty professionals) bloggers are relatively fickle” do not strike me as being particularly professionally journalistic in style. If you do some research, you’ll find that most non-professional bloggers are in fact blogging because they are passionate about their subject matter, and because they want to share that passion with others.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:01 am
I’ve followed this debate with interest. I’ve also read the blog posts that some of the ladies above have written in response, and I’ve read the twitter posts too.
I’m part of that ‘clique’ that has been mentioned. I can see it now, maybe I didn’t before. I’m part of it in that I respond to these people’s blogs, they follow mine, we all go around and around talking to each other about the same thing and feel we’re a bit of a family.
What I hadn’t realised is just how we are perceived by someone on the outside.
Because I’m ‘linked’ and followed by/follow some of those twitter accounts that MakeupFan posted up, i’ve seen the comments of ‘what a bitch’ and ‘antiblog’ and ‘vitriolic’ and the ridiculous piss taking that’s gone on. It really has become playground, and once upon a time I might have joined in, but because I took time to go away and think about how I’d respond, I’ve actually begun to think about what that says about us as a ‘close knit’ beauty blogging world
I think it’s a real shame that Amanda Wright feels worried about disagreeing with someone because it goes against the grain. I didn’t reply to this thread yesterday because that touched a raw nerve. I felt ‘oi, what are you trying to say’ and got all defensive. I also got cross at what Sam and some of the commenters were trying to say. However, I’ve stopped and tried to look at it objectively, and it took some time for me to clear my head to do that.
I took that comment of Amanda’s very much to heart. How dare she insinuate that bloggers won’t accept her opinion, but I then started to look at my blogs and those of the ‘inner circle’ and I can very much see why she and others are wary of disagreeing with the more ‘established’ bloggers. They’re desperate to get in the circle.
Its a crazy situation really. At the end of the day, it narrows down to bloggers just talking to other bloggers, and newbies being desperate to ‘fit in’ by not rocking the boat.
What’s really sad though is that I’m also wary to go out on a limb. I’m not saying who I am because I’m scared of the backlash I might get.
That’s sad isn’t it? Scared of what a handful of other women might say about me. But then I sort of want to keep in the ‘cool gang’ but I’ve certainly sat up and taken notice of what Sam, and the others have said.
It isn’t about being a better or worse reviewer, and while I think Sam was probably wrong to be quite so obvious about who she was referring too, I get her point that the post was a bit pointless if those bloggers weren’t actually going to do anything.
I think we’ve all naturally got defensive and maybe need to take time to think, I understand why makeup artists get frustrated that their opinion counts for little when its up against a blogger with a thousand followers…
February 17th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Charlotte, your post had gone into the spam file.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:53 am
I think it’s been very unfortunate that you had to write this article Sam. To make assumptions on what was written on a blog you read just wasn’t the way to go. The blog you mentioned in your post never named any names. If you are writing from a journalistic approach how did you know who they were writing about if they didn’t confirm it? Is that not inflammatory? (correct word?)
You wrote, and I quote, “Well it would appear that we’re going that way, but perhaps its time to take more seriously, the blogger who has a professional background to what she’s saying, rather than the one that talks the most and the loudest, often with not a lot of content.”
To me this screams someone who wants attention because she’s a “professional”. Perhaps the issue here isn’t really what bloggers write about but more about the fact that you don’t get the high followers that the bigger followers do. Do beauty bloggers affect your business? Are you losing out as a result to them? Until you wrote this post, very few beauty bloggers were aware of your “online Magazine” as you put it. Now why is that? If you participated in the beauty community and read a bit more perhaps you’d realise that beauty bloggers aren’t as fickle as you make out.
Just because someone doesn’t talk about bases and neutral colours doesn’t mean that they deserve to be discredited. As a make-up artist myself I LOVE bold bright colours. But does that mean I can’t beat down a great neutral face? of course not. Most of my looks involve colour because I like it. If I wasn’t an MUA that would mean my content is shallow?
I do hope for your sake that you can somehow rectify this situation. Beauty Bloggers have a lot more going for them than you probably realise. The internet is a powerful place. And you’ve made a lot of people upset by your article.
Let’s hope this doesn’t come and bite you in the ass one day. If it hasn’t already…
February 17th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Can I also just say that part of me thinks this is bad for makeup? There is a real “YouTube look”, I think:
Urban Decay Frickin Primer Potion
Boring neutral shimmery “pretty” lid colour
Frosty inner corner highlight
Defined shimmery crease, probably taupey
Darker colour in the outer V
MSF
Nude lip
Tinted lipgloss
I feel like beauty trends on YouTube haven’t developed much, and I worry that it encourages beauty companies to play to the crowd. Well, it’s great for the companies – it’s a look that uses a lot of single-purpose products, loaded with cheapo shimmer.
I was reading that freebie Stylist magazine on the tube last night (quite good actually) and the beauty section was quite developed – with four or five pages of Terry Barber doing some amazing looks with new MAC products. It was pretty advertorial admittedly, but genuinely creative, so I’d say it was a step in the right direction – most mags beauty coverage is perfunctory at best. I want to see new looks, new ideas, multi purpose products – there are a few YouTube channels that give me this, but they’re mostly professional MUAs to be honest.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:52 am
I met Sam at the IMATS, I introduced myself to her, as I sometimes read the reviews and have a look in the forum now and again.
I said that I was a blogger, and she asked why I didn’t have a press pass. I said ‘why would I’ and she said that she’d met a “couple of girls at the Yaby counter who were bloggers and had passes” I asked who they were, and she showed me their names that they’d written down. She said she hadn’t heard of them (and neither have I, but then I’ve not heard of everyone!), but that they were taking lots of notes and asking great questions of the Yaby owner and it seemed that they were worth looking at because blogging does seem to be the new media.
All I’m trying to say is that I don’t think Sam set out to have a go at a couple of bloggers, to me, she seemed genuinely interested in how the blog world is now being perceived and thought that these 2 girls were a good place to start.
Yes, I think it was probably a mistake to actually use them as an example of ‘bad’ blogging, though I agree that the post about hygiene was a bit pointless, as they don’t seem to have followed up with anything, and maybe she should have used examples of ‘good’ blogs but I see where she is coming from.
I don’t know Sam personally, I’m not a registered member of the forum, though I do read it, and other than meeting her once at the IMATs, I’ve never ‘spoken’ with her in any medium.
what I also want to add is that Sam seems to be a really helpful person. She created a site out of a need that people had, (before the likes of Lauren Luke and youtube shot to fame, and before blogging became as popular as it is), to have live makeup advice from professionals rather than other general consumers. the makeup artists on the forum itself are free and willing with their advice to new makeup artists and to general women, they give pointers and tips and encourage others to give their thoughts aswell.
from my point of view, I don’t think Sam intended her article to be malicious, more a voicing of thoughts that perhaps came across too personally. I doubt that was her intention.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:40 am
I appreciate you digging my comment out of the spam bin, it must have been all those Cialis links I had posted.
It’s a crying shame if bloggers new or old feel that they can’t break into the ‘inner circle’ – that makes it sound like a coven. Oh wait…
Seriously though, as a photographer who has spent many hours on a female oriented photography forum, it’s like that everywhere on the internet. Anywhere there is a community, you will find a clique. Some are more exclusive than others. Infact, the beauty blogging one I think is quite welcoming and fluid in comparison to some I have experienced!
I don’t blog because I want to be part of the community, infact… recently I’ve been taking a few steps back and have been less active within the community *cough* twitter *cough*, focusing my attentions on my blog. Not for any real reasons other than feeling like I don’t have much to contribute. It has given me the opportunity to look at it from an outsider’s perspective, and let me tell you… there are loads of new faces and new funny and quirky bloggers that are joining the ‘clique’ everyday! If you put the effort in to actively participate, you will be welcomed. If you sit on the sidelines scowling ‘cos your one comment or tweet isn’t being replied to, you’re only going to make yourself bitter.
I’ve completely gone off topic, but the discussion seems to have shifted in some aspects.
Oh, regarding “the you tube look”. I don’t really watch you tube, but this phenomenon is rife in the photography world aswell. The major forums and users create styles, use the same props, retouch in the same manner. It’s not something that can be blamed on bloggers. It’s a strange thing, but it’s not ruining makeup, in the same way it doesn’t ruin photography. Things will always be en vogue until that trend passes and everyone decides that Anne Geddes style photography is like *so* 1994.
Sam, I thank you for this article, but I still thoroughly disapprove of the way you wrote it singling out individuals for scorn.
February 17th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Hi,
I have been following the rest of this debate with interest since my initial comments, but hadn’t felt the need to comment any further until I read ‘anonymous blogger’s’ comments that she had taken offense to what I said.
My comment wasn’t intended to insinuate that I thought there was a ‘clique’ or an ‘inner circle’ or that I didn’t want to be rejected by the ‘cool’ bloggers for having my own opinion. Initially, yes I did consider not leaving the comment because I didn’t want to hijack someone else’s blog comments by potentially starting a debate about the product in question. I certainly wasn’t suggesting that the ‘main’ bloggers who are referred to throughout this debate would ‘reject’ me or not let me play with them. As someone who is new to blogging, I am still learning the etiquette and doubted myself as to whether it’s ok to disagree like that on someone else’s comments thread or if I should have written my own review on my own blog. That’s what I meant by being ‘lynched’ i.e was my contradictory opinion left in the appropriate place. Of course I wondered if I would be taken to task about what I said, but I think the fact that A) I posted the comments in the first place and B) that I did so under my real identity proves that I was less concerned with what other bloggers would think about me and more concerned with offering an alternative point of view. Something I would have expected would be welcomed?
I have, however been slightly offended, and am now feeling exceptionally defensive to read that it is assumed that I am scared to disagree with the popular bloggers because I am desperate to get into the ‘inner circle’. First of all, until this article, I hadn’t even considered there was an inner circle! Secondly, considering my physical location (i.e the north of scotland), it is unlikely I am ever going to meet these bloggers, and really join the ‘inner circle’ that is referred to. Sure, I follow many on Twitter and some even follow me back, but I thought that was because we had a shared and common interest, not because it’s intended that I be inducted into some kind of beauty blogging coven.
Of course I wouldn’t want to offend anybody on a personal level, but since we are all grown women, I would have expected that the bloggers who I may have a different opinion from would ‘respect’ me for offering to share that opinion? Not expect me, ‘as a newbie’ to be ashamed or scared that my opinion will rock the boat?
Once again, let me reiterate that my comment about being ‘lynched’ wasn’t intended to convey that I thought other bloggers are so precious about their own opinions, or that I felt they would be unwelcoming but that I was doubting my own position in terms of how best to convey my thoughts.
So anonymous blogger, I respect you for at least acknowledging that you felt uneasy about revealing your identity and I hope my post goes someway to explain my position on the whole ‘clique’ situation we appear to be faced with.
A x
February 17th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
What about the fact that thanks to blogger reviews, most of us have been saved from the time and expense of experimenting with products until we find something that works? Reading multiple bloggers’ reviews of a product paints for me a pretty good picture about whether I will like that product myself. And truthfully, I have yet to regret a beauty purchase that I’ve made on the recommendation of a beauty blogger. No matter how much beauty bloggers ramble or “talk for the sake of talking”, they give great in-depth personal reviews. Go read amazing people like Lollipop26, Bubblegarm and TiffanyD. After seeing their makeup skills, I have trouble defining a pro from an amateur.
On another note, I’d be much more likely to take advice from magazines if they ran articles like “Products we suggest you DON’T buy”. I trust bloggers because they talk about products they like AND dislike. It seems that the glossies only give rave reviews, pretty pictures, and at most, a small caption. There’s a lack of in-depth, authentic critiques of a product.
http://clearlybeautiful.blogspot.com/2010/02/jealous-are-we.html
February 17th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Maybe your jelous? Im really sorry but, is there not enough room for an individual’s views and opinions? Its not just the professionals that can be listened to, you know.
And for your information, the reason that bloggers seem to be taken more seriously that the professionals is because they are not being paid to do reviews, they do it out of passion for beauty. People will more often than not go with their thoughts because they KNOW its genuine (unless of course they are being paid for it etc) whereas professionals.. its their job. You could be lieing, then again you could not be.
What im trying to say, basically, is that your not talking from an overall view point, your talking from a very negative view point and quite honestly i find you very arrogant and insulting to all bloggers out there, as if we should be classed lower than you?
And as you say above, you don’t have any kind of journalism or writing qualifications just as many bloggers may not, so then, why are you considered to be higher than we are? Because really, you should be shutting up and doing someones makeup like your trained to do. Thats basically what your telling bloggers to do and i think its wrong.
Either accept bloggers as part of this industry, whom you can learn from and in turn teach, or shut up and let us get on with it.
February 17th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
“Sam, you sound like you’ve just travelled to the future from 2002. Most, if not all of your comments regarding the state of the blogosphere are completely outdated. They’re practically carbon-dated. I’m afraid the only effect of your article has been to demonstrate your ignorance of the interwebz.”
I agree with this. If you feel the need to explain what ‘weblogs’ are to your audience in 2010, you aren’t very aware of your audience.
I find this article rather mean and somewhat jealous-sounding. I work in the media, I am involved with some aspects of the cosmetics industry myself, and I haven’t heard of you myself. It seems very odd for one blogger (and yes, this is a blog, even if written by someone who works in make-up professionally) to pour scorn on others. There are many aspects of blogs that irritate, but just as many professional journalists who are lousy writers, have opinions that are irrelevant to me, or are clearly beauty industry shills (and as I get access to cosmetics test data, I know fine well whether something works or not).
February 17th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Dear Oh Dear. Well, if your ‘journalistic approach’ means that you credit readers with little or no intelligence, then frankly that is the reason I have given up on traditional media for beauty news and reviews. They have their agenda, everyone does. Blogs have been around for quite a while, most of us are aware of them, to a greater or lesser extent. The fact that you are just catching on to the potential sway they may hold, means that perhaps you need to do some reading up about the magic of the internet and the power of social media/Web 2.0/user generated content and interactivity/social networking.
Your ‘article’ makes you sound like one of those people in high school who considered themselves part of the social elite, getting upset when the ordinary people were taken notice of. You need to grow up and catch up with the 21st Century.
Yours, not a blogger, just a reader.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
I am a well respected beauty blogger and have been for a while. Reviews are not intended to be reviews for professional artists, more for the everyday woman who would like to make informed buying decisions. Its a shame you feel so threatened. Maybe if you spoke to more beauty bloggers and didnt take a tiny cross section of the community, you would have more research to base your ideas upon.
February 17th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Hmmm. Reading these comments is very interesting. I personally am a devoted follower of many blogs which I absolutely adore (I even have one, but it isn’t a beauty blog). Why do I follow these blogs instead of reading articles or blogs by professional make up artists? It is simply because the blogs I follow talk about my favorite products, and also in the same budget range as me. I can’t afford to buy MAC or NARS every time something interesting comes around, and honestly most higher end brands have not provided for exactly what I need. Smaller mineral make up companies is almost exclusively where I shop and those beauty bloggers that aren’t professionals are the ones who blog about them most and really help influence my decision in what to purchase.
And honestly, can you really blame a beauty blogger for not having numerous faces to try make up on? You call it being biased, but I call it expressing themselves about what they love and feel the need to share. The blogger chose to do something other in his or her life aside from being a make up artist, but that does not mean he or she is less qualified to take advise from. May be they won’t be in magazines or write any prominent articles, but their blog will be followed and love because people find their information valuable.
I think both beauty bloggers and professional make up artists should be taken to the same esteem, but not to the same context (if that makes any sense). They usually cater to different audiences who generally want different things. For example, reading this forum really does me almost no good because I am generally not interested in the products discussed here, but I AM interested in most products discussed by those every day women who write about make up because they want to and its a hobby. They feel almost less intimidating than talking to a pro.
I meant nothing negative or against anyone here, I just wanted to state my thoughts on the subject!
February 17th, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Sam, you go girl!
I’m a makeup artist and a blogger. I’m not a full time Makeup Artist, I have a young family, so I work around them.
I do blog, because it lets me chat to myself about makeup and I do quite like to read other opinions, but I do take my blog as literally an online journal, so I do incorporate bits about my working life.
I totally understand where you’re coming from. I did a makeup lesson a few weeks back and was chatting to the client about makeup that I like to use (for the record, I use high street brands, not pro brands, I don’t do editorial/fashion etc), and she said ‘oh, that’s meant to be rubbish’ to quite a few things. She hadn’t used them herself. No no, she follows blogs. Not disimilar to your example with the blogger you met at the IMATS
Her loss.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Personally I think blogs can be a bit boring! Unless you know the person or its something a bit different like Belle De Jour which I did find quite interesting!
I think the problem with the beauty bloggers who aren’t professionals and have no professional training/skills/hygeine awareness…they could be anyone from a marketing guru behind one of the big cosmetic houses like soap powder brands a lot are owned by the same company who’s to say they aren’t employing someone to rave about their products and complain about products outside there “overall company”. I wouldn’t like to name the companies for fear of being in a libal position but some of the big brands own 4 or 5 big brands!
I think the beauty of MAF forum is you get a mixture of people professional MA’s, wanna be MA’s, make up junkies and people like myself who stumbled across the sight when planning my wedding 4 years ago!
People have been quick to dismiss saying only high end products are reviewed but thats not the case! One of the MA’s actually recommended a “high street” branded mascara that I have to say is one of the best buys in my make up bag! You’ll also find reviews from people that are everyday people with others commenting and loads of people to ask advice! People who have trained! A blogger is like a mask hiding who they really are!
That said I am sure there probably are some MA bloggers but again by reading/taking recommendations from a blog its one view!
February 17th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
As someone who is not a MUA but who is a blogger and a “make up junkie” I suppose, I have to say I respect both opinions. But I do tend to take bloggers opinions and reviews more seriously. Possibly because it is only tested on themselves, but I have asked for reccomendations on MAF lots of times and its always the ones from MUA’s that have really worked for me. I’ve bought things mentioned on blogs and they’ve ended up at the bottom of my make up bag.
I don’t do my blog for followers, if you read my blog yes I post a few “hauls” but not the usual “Ooh look at the things I bought from the new mac collection that only came out today” “hauls”. I appreciate my followers and the comments they leave me, but I don’t have hundreds like most bloggers. I like to use my blog to post pictures of a look I’ve done that I like and want to have a picture of it, or maybe (sometimes) to talk about a product that I have found has really worked for me but most of the time I will only do that if I have used it for months rather than days. I know what I like, I know the brands I like and I know my own skin and what works well with it so I won’t go out and buy something just because a blogger has said how amazing it is. In the blogging community there does definately seem to be a clique Anon Blogger is right about that. If you don’t tweet enough, if you don’t post about the latest products then you’re not in that clique. They all start to post about the new MAC collection and then they all jump on the bandwagon,you go into your Blogger Dashboard and there are 50 posts all showing the exact same products that the blogger won’t even use in a couple of weeks and will be forgotten about. I like reading about products people have used for years and that they couldn’t live without, not something that is going to be around for 4 weeks before the next collection comes out. Another thing is there is one blog and she seems to get sent so much from companies to review that I just don’t trust those kind of reviews. Every single thing she blogs about she got for free.
Not all bloggers are like this, there are some whose blogs I really enjoy reading and respect their opinions. You do have some valid points Sam, but I can see why some bloggers are up in arms about it as they don’t like to be told they’re wrong, who does?
February 17th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
I think that maybe you are a little intimidated by these beauty blogger, scared they’re doing your job a little better than you are? They are entitled to their own opinion, to try what they want to try and ‘slag off’ whatever they want. These people who got the pass were there because they were doing the job as good as you were and they earnt the respect of the people that follow them and take their advice.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Actually the funny thing is that this post about bloggers has probably got you the most visits cause the blogging community has that power
February 17th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
Are you actually posting our comments now then, Sam?
I am one of the two girls Sam met at IMATS and I blog at the London Beauty Review.
A few people above thought the hygiene post was pointless – I take that on board. It was written at a time when I was still wondering what to do about the situation, and wasn’t a fully-formed or useful post on reflection. I did end up making a complaint. I probably should have followed that up on the blog too, so thanks for the feedback and for allowing me to reflect on my approach.
I will state again that the counter in question was NOT a Benefit counter. I am concerned that Sam has given that impression, because it’s incorrect. We have had no issue with Benefit’s counter hygiene.
I tried to point this out in a comment posted yesterday, but it was censored.
There is a full rebuttal to this post on our blog, the one Sam disliked so much. The post made us, and it seems a lot of other people, pretty angry and upset. We made the post as a way of reacting to this, because at the time Sam was not allowing our comments to be posted here. Hopefully she’s going to allow this one through.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:34 am
Reading a beauty blog, to me, is like asking a beauty junkie friend what she thought of a product. We don’t expect them to be experts or trained, but we have decided that they kinda love beauty, so have an opinion we would like to hear. I also love the written style of the blogs, casual and fun to read, and usually pretty funny! And beauty is just makeup, it should make us smile if nothing else.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:35 am
You need to look at a major list of blogs before you can write something like this, it’s totally unfair to disregard all bloggers views towards makeup and cosmetics. I agree some people don’t review products like they should do, but neither do journalists. Like you said you are NOT a qualified journalist, so what gives you the right to demand that beauty bloggers be professional makeup artists?
I think this was a very sour article and uncalled for.
Major companies have agreed that the majority of bloggers have a voice who give REAL reviews which can be an advantage or disadvantage.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:37 am
I’m in two minds about this…I understand where you are coming from MAF but I do have a few *issues* with some statements. I know you said you were generalising about these blogs but I find that MOST beauty related blogs have a little note about how they are not professional makeup artists or what have you, and that this is just their own opinion. MOST beauty bloggers review’s are also not just a product they’ve tried “one or two times” they will have used it over a few weeks or longer, otherwise they will state how long they’ve used it for. And as for brands, MOST beauty bloggers review a wind range of products with MAC products being involved in a lot of these blogs. Or how you say core products, I think MOST blogs do involve core products from a brand…it’s not all just the latest thing…
Of course everyone is entitled to own opinion. It just seems like there’s so much trash talking these days between the individual and the “professional” as you say… You’re no more qualified than the average blogger in the writing aspect as you said…MOST beauty bloggers reviews or posts are comprehensive with many points,”a start, discussion and conclusion” and MOST talk about the “good and bad points” too.
As for the hygiene post, there was no mention of Benefit being the counter at all, and I think it’s a bit of a throw in the dark to say they complained to the other counter… I think many individuals would not complain straight away, in the heat of the moment you may not think about it as it stands. Therefore once you leave you may think about it more and so decide to complain about something later…just saying.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:43 am
While I am a makeup artist and have been working in the beauty biz for awhile, you all have to realize that people value a blogger’s opinion because we are average girl next door types writing about things that we are so passionate about. We also are ‘in the know’ a lot more than most professional people because we scour the internet for reviews/opinions before buying most things. I guess what I am trying to get at is that I have obtained much more tips/tricks/knowledge from other bloggers and the net in general than any ‘professional’ or school I have come across thus far. Just because someone doesn’t do something as a career or went to school for it does not mean they don’t know their stuff, I suggest not being so ignorant.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:08 am
“Tessa Says:
February 17th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Can I also just say that part of me thinks this is bad for makeup? There is a real “YouTube look”, I think:
Urban Decay Frickin Primer Potion
Boring neutral shimmery “pretty” lid colour
Frosty inner corner highlight
Defined shimmery crease, probably taupey
Darker colour in the outer V
MSF
Nude lip
Tinted lipgloss
I feel like beauty trends on YouTube haven’t developed much, and I worry that it encourages beauty companies to play to the crowd. Well, it’s great for the companies – it’s a look that uses a lot of single-purpose products, loaded with cheapo shimmer.”
HA!
Tessa, I love you for saying this. You’ve no idea how much better I feel, knowing I’m not alone in my youtube frustration.
That’s why I read the drag queen tutorials instead! I’m so over the Rachel Unchitel look; it’s like the 80′s Video Girls are reincarnating themselves on youtube. I tend to avoid youtube altogether, but get sucked in every now and again.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:09 am
Hey! I just want to note Bobbi Brown uses an outside PR firm to disseminate sizeable amounts of swag to beauty bloggers, who then write straight-up crap about how great the products are in an effort to gain more swag and other creative payments from the PR firm. It’s obvious to any critical reader/thinker that the multitude of simultaneous glowing blog reviews on BB’s Cabana Coral collection are all competing for the same readership and growing pile of swag and payments.
There are two issues here: One is critical readers can smell the BS and bloggers lose credibility when they artifically inflate a product’s claims. Even if they offer swag as a readership prize, interest is eventually going to die back when they purchase pr-sponsored products and realize it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
The other issue is the readership quality. If you look at data (and commenters links) you see the vast majority of subscribed readerships and repeated daily clicks are from other bloggers. It truly is an insular blogging industry and friends and foes alike are supporting each others efforts to achieve the highest click ratio. The average beauty product consumer typically has not yet reached multiple subscriptions on file but other beauty bloggers subscribe to multiple blogs in an effort to stay ahead of the competition, narrow down the targeted readership and ascertain the most direct route to a successful career that entail swag, trips, trade shows, cash and press. And frankly, once a ‘beauty addict’ sees how genuinely simple a throw-up blog is, they then create their own, thereby creating an increasingly more insular industry.
My opinion is the FTC ruling on disclosing swag is only the beginning of a changing landscape in the world of beauty blogging. Beauty blogging needs honesty above all else to survive and thrive in a competitive environment. This is not about Journalism degrees or swag/creative-for-pay postings in the beauty blogosphere. The beauty blogging industry is essentially about entertainment, the quest for beauty and acceptance, and the de-mystification of beauty related products.
My disclosure: I hold a BA in English Lit and have a beauty blog that receives no compensation/swag/creative payment arrangements.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:53 am
I first want to say, when I saw this article, I was irate. How dare this women just throw a huge brick in the belly of my life. Then I thought, really? Am I really getting this upset about it?
I am new to the world of social media and having my own site and blog. I am not new to the world of beauty, or journalism. I recently started my own website, blog, and webstore. Gulp! Lots of work it has turned out to be, but I love it. I am lucky enough to say I have had a balanced life as far as career is concerned. I was a child performer/model and still do some freelance work as a model. I grew up in a family of small time models and actors. Also, a good deal of cosmotology majors. My cousin, for instance is a makeup artist and she taught me to do my own makeup for PR shots and such when I was a teenager. I have also had training in makeup appliacation through my agency. I went to college for Philosophy, which is comprised mostly of read, argue, write and repeat.
Needless to say, I gained a strong working knowledge of writing. I have taken that knowledge and done some freelance writting for websites and news publications. Shortly after I started freelancing on the web, I got pulled into the whole social media aspect of the internet and started my own sites. It seemed to make sense as I love writing and I loved running a business with my mom in my early 20′s.
My website is rather large in scope, as I intend to provide info and advice on all aspects of a woman’s life as the site grows. My blog is mainly about nail polish and handbags so far, but is moving towards the same scope as the website. In my store, BellaFaye, I sell new, used, and vitage apparel and jewelry. I also offer some cosmetics, nail polish at this time.
What this all leads to is a wondering and a question. With or without all of this background “Am I Qualified?”
I am qualified to write at least semi decently, as well as to give my own opinion. I am also qualified in that I have some basic knowledge of what I am writing about.
Sam, while I think it is unfortunate that most misunderstood your article to some extent, I am glad that you wrote and published it for all to see.
I disagree with most of what you have said, but I agree with some of it. I think many bloggers just type to see the curser move. I do not ever take payment for my opinions on my blog. ADsense is the only money I get out of the blog or website. I also purchase and use all of the products I have reviewed. I research and use my own advice before I give it. And I try to sound interesting. I would not call my self a professional by any means as I don’t have the degree, but I was trained by a professional and had to learn how to apply makeup for in person apperances, on camera, and on screen appearances. Which as you know, can be difficult tasks. Powder from head to toe is trickier than it looks!
I know I will never get it all right and that I have a lot to learn. Which brings me to another point and to your point and question of your article. The dictionary definition for your journalist out there, of media is simply this: “Formats for presenting information.” Blogs are and always have been media! As far as having a lot to learn goes, I plan to take another degree in college called New Media. Not news media, I didn’t screw up the spelling. This is a whole degree dedicated to teaching people how to create, manipulate, control and promote internet media. This is a new degree in the U.S. that has been developed because research has shown that print or paper publications are going down in circulation and profits while website are gaining more hits and earning more in revenue. This is a big enough phenomenon that Rupert Murdoch has felt the pinch and made the switch. So…..yes. Blog are media, the new media, and the future(at leastin part)in media.
If you want to stay succcessful on the internet, just my opinion and unprofessional advice, you might want to make nice with us bloggers.
Also, as a side note, SHAME to any blogger that makes another person lie or hide their true opinion! I may just be a bit too brash, but I would never let a snob stop me from what I enjoy doing nor would lie to fit in. No one should have to. If I ever make another person feel this way, I hope that they would set me straight.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:39 am
Sam
Thank you for having the stones to express your views.
It seems like this article has gone a “thou doth protest too much” because many of these bloggers, if they really look at themselves and their blogs, few are similar to an online magazine.
They talk about their boyfriends, their personals, their job and it’s always evident when a press release hits because everyone writes about the same item/brand.
In addition, it’s disgusting how the hauls are so similar. Lush, MAC, St. Tropez, etc. They write about the same things and why should anyone have to “work” to be accepted into their “culture?”
I have gotten more help from the Pixiwoos, than ANY “guru” out there. Sure this is a new media but many have an audience who aren’t in my demographic.
I’m not into Lost, 24, Twiglight, Jersey Shore, et al. What does that have to do with what’s the look for fall, and how can one conceal the bags from under eyes due to work, kids, school etc.
I’m grown and I have commented on many of these blogs, tweets, and even tried to e-mail and unless your name is recognized, no response. That’s you to Mrs. Jones!
I really wish there was a way to separate so, I just stick to the ones who happen to have professional experience in either makeup artistry, esthetics, or writing.
How can a blog where one discusses their personals, and makeup be taken serious and I’ve seen how giddish they are at meetups so I can see how they were at IMATS, isn’t a blogger/vlogger a reason why many couldn’t get the coveted MAC pro card which is used to buy makeup and not for it’s intended purpose?
February 18th, 2010 at 8:26 am
Okay, I’m not a blogger, I’m not really that clued up on what blogs are, but I do read MAF and other online magazines regularly.
I can totally see where Sam is coming from. Why are beauty bloggers opinions to Joe Public more important than a pro makeup artists? I don’t think they are, I just think makeup artists and other beauty professionals are far too busy doing their jobs to have time to sit around talking about makeup all day every day
February 18th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Can anyone explain to me what the difference is between a magazine putting in a review of a product, that they received for free and a blogger putting in a review of a product they received for free…..
as far as I can see, there isn’t anything different….
February 18th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
oh, and I wiki’d for what an online magazine is, as you’re all saying MAF isn’t one. Or rather its not a ‘glossy magazine’ which I’m not sure Sam said it was…
“An online magazine shares some features with a blog and also with online newspapers, but can usually be distinguished by its approach to editorial control. Magazines typically have editors or editorial boards who review submissions and perform a quality control function to ensure that all material meets the expectations of the publishers (those investing time or money in its production) and the readership.”
February 18th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
I am a beauty blogger and think that everyone is entitle to have and share their experiance with beauty products. Make up artist preach others on how to do make up and bloggers are simply giving their opinion. People trust blogs because there are real people and passions behind them!!! But look at Pixiwoo they are two amazing pros who know how to be great beauty bloggers at the same time!!!!
So think twice next time you publish such a stupid article!!!!
February 18th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Why are so many bloggers declaring ‘I’m not a makeup artist, I just like to play with makeup’ on their blogs and then attending the IMATS which, incase I’ve got it wrong is a trade show for MAKEUP ARTISTS?
You bloggers are all deluded…
February 18th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Does anyone else think that bloggers are in denial that they’re puppets having their strings pulled by the beauty companies?
simple logic, as Pixiwoo said right back at the beginning…
blogger posts reviews that other bloggers like
blogger gets more followers so posts more reviews
blogger gets a few more followers
beauty companies all thinking how to get their product out there
beauty company thinks ‘hmmm, lets chuck a load of freebies around’
blogger gets freebies and thinks ‘I’m so special’
blogger posts favourable review, even though not that delighted with product, but doesn’t dare risk the tentative relationship with new PR friend…
Beauty company thinks, ‘hmmm, that worked, we’ll do it again’ and again and again….
you’re all suckers if you think you’re that different to magazines…
February 18th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Sam, thank you so much for this article.
I’m roaring with laughter here. Not at you, but at all the bloggers who are up in arms about it all!
All you’ve said is that it’s bonkers that the public are prepared to write off products based on a handful of reviews from people who’ve only tested it on their faces.
I totally agree!
Hark at you lot shouting ‘my opinion counts, my opinion counts’!
I don’t think Sam ever said that it didn’t count, she just said it needed putting into perspective that you lot are churning out review after review after review with not a lot of substance to it. she was so right about those bloggers who put up that pointless post about hygiene.
Did anyone read that IMATS report. zzzzzzzzzzzzz
and then all the subsequent reviews of products that ‘we were given at the IMATS’ zzzzzzzzzzzz not one of them is negative.
funny that?
And I’ve had a good old look through the rest of the ‘insulted’ crowd on here and you’re all the same. I could probably type it for you. lets have a go…
“disclaimer – I have received this product from the PR agency.
I’ve been dying to try this for ages, but not sure how much I’d like it, but WOW I love it!” zzzzzzzzzzz
change the record everyone and see that you’re not actually touching the general population, only a bunch of other bloggers…
February 18th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Very interesting debate and I enjoyed reading the original article and all the comments. I have only just stumbled upon this and haven’t been party to the Twitter kerfuffle as I no longer follow all the beauty blogs and converse via Twitter.
At one stage you could stay that I was in that “clique” but I had a very negative experience and decided to remove myself from the scene entirely – I still read a very few blogs, the ones that I deem to be useful and informative and have cut out the million and one copycats with nothing original to say for themselves except to gush about whatever freebie they have recently received or a “mac haul” (yawn).
What I thought was a very salient point was about the concept of a “web log” i.e, a personal diary but online. That was certainly the concept that I started my own blog on. I never ever thought I would get any other readers, it was purely for my own benefit. I wrote about the products I was using and enjoying because it was fun to do so and look back on. I followed other blogs because it was cool to see what other girls were buying and enjoying to get ideas for myself. Soon the PR companies cottoned on to the power of social media and blogs started to become less and less “web logs” and more and more writing specifically to an audience like a wannabe magazine. Lots of girls saw how easy it was to start a blog and how quickly the freebies would start coming in – all they had to do was review “honestly” the things they were being sent. So I found it harder and harder to find genuine blogs because everything was a review of something that had been sent or just A.N.Other review of “the next big thing” that someone big like Lollipop26 has discovered.
Having written a blog on this I was pretty much vilified for having an opinion different to the rest (“you are so negative”, “you love drama”) and so much for the blogging community being “close knit”… some seriously personal insults and a Twitter bitchfest was levied at me from girls I had considered to be friends with.
Bring back the good old “web log” and all the wanabee Lauren Lukes and Tavis can JOG ON and get over themselves.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
I have chosen not to approve the comments that were full of swear words, 12 I think from one person alone…
There has been no censorship of this, or ‘moderation’ other than that. I don’t believe in censorship, everyone’s opinion counts and is valid.
I also don’t sit at my computer all day waiting for another comment to come through. I work away from the office too.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
This is going to be cathartic. Thank you Sam so much for giving me the opportunity to say this -
Bloggers, please do the following
Stop swatching on hairy arms, it’s gross.
Stop swatching altogether in fact, you should describe the product well enough to not need to
sort out your damned cuticles before you put up NOTD pictures
Actually, either show the 3 different layers of how you built up the colour or don’t bother, as theres no point showing your nails looking like the bottles.
please pluck your eyebrows
phew!
I feel so much better.
thanks Sam, that really helped
)
February 18th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Gatinah,
the Pixiwoo girls are Vloggers, not Bloggers, a very different thing. In fact, you might want to go and look at their first few videos and see who they’re dedicated to ;o)
February 18th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
if it was true that blogs and bloggers are a waste of time, only reach out to other bloggers, are created by sad little women who have a desire for validation that they’re only in it for the freebies then why is everyone who thinks these things getting their knickers in a twist about them?
If you genuinely don’t feel threatened by the rising popularity of bloggers, why do you care enough to post here? Surely if blogs really are all the above things, it will only be a matter of time before they die off again.
February 18th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
I actually want to ask a serious question of those who believe blogs are not credible or that they are dangerous in terms of either influencing their followers into believing a biased view or because they are ‘pr pleasing’…
I have a blog. It started out as simply somewhere to post photos of make-up looks I’d done. I got some requests regarding products (from readers not prs) and found my readers enjoyed not only seeing the ‘looks’ I’d created but also reading what I thought about products. So my blog is now a mish mash of both.
Now, I am taking some professional training (from someone I’m confident you’d all agree is very credible) and will hopefully be able to channel my passion into a profession as a freelance artist. I obviously understand I wont just start getting work immediately, but that’s beside the point.
I want to know if you think my blog would be more ‘credible’ after training?
February 18th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Clearly this debate has created a lot of emotion and as Sabrina says, the irony is that it is this subject has created the most response. In answer to the question, yes, blogging is the new ‘media’ and bloggers do a have a lot of power, which is why I have read this page and feel the urge to comment. We live in a free world, and as you say, a Blog is a weblog, or online diary, and everyone is entitled to have a diary and express their opinions. As far as only journalists or make-up artists should have a make-up blog, I disagree. The majority of fashion journalists can’t sew a stitch, food journalists probably can’t boil an egg, but these people can write about the subject. The bottom line is whoever is the consumer of a product, ie, make-up, can express an opinion on it to their readers and followers, regardless of their profession or background.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
To whoever said this was a blog (really? blogs have multiple writers do they?) which I presume is because it’s powered by wordpress (hosted elsewhere, incase you were wondering), well, if it’s good enough for NASA’s research centre, the Wall Street Journal and MTV, amongst others, it’s good enough for me
February 18th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
********8Amanda Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
if it was true that blogs and bloggers are a waste of time, only reach out to other bloggers, are created by sad little women who have a desire for validation that they’re only in it for the freebies then why is everyone who thinks these things getting their knickers in a twist about them?
If you genuinely don’t feel threatened by the rising popularity of bloggers, why do you care enough to post here? Surely if blogs really are all the above things, it will only be a matter of time before they die off again.*********
I can’t answer for SamMakeup, but I can tell you that exaggerating this issue with comments like “sad little women” does nothing to further your position. You should take a step back, put on your big girl pants and think about why this makes you angry. And then present your opinion calmly.
Personally, I think the ‘rising popularity’ of beauty blogs is an inflated blip. I wish I could purchase stock on some of these blogs, because I’d make a killing on short-term growth.
By the way, why are so few bloggers posting here providing links back? What are you afraid of?
February 18th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
Can I point out that professional journalists who have their master’s degree in the subject may take you to task in the same way you are attacking the layman makeup enthusiast? You come across as a tad hypocritical by demeaning the bloggers who are not trained journalists when you in fact are not one yourself.
I think part of the frustration stems from the fact that makeup is something that can be both a hobby and a profession. If you were a doctor who was livid because a community of bloggers not trained in the medical field were writing about the best way to perform open heart surgery, you would have an excellent point. But honestly? It’s just makeup, not exactly a matter of life or death. Some of the best tutorials I have seen come from the self-taught. And some of the best ones have also come from those with extensive training. There is definitely room in the blogosphere for both perspectives. I can say that I have learned more from the average woman on makeupalley than any of Linda Wells’ people at Allure magazine. Makeup blogs run the spectrum from part-time hobbyists to straight out professionals, and I enjoy ones from both categories (and yes, even the ones that say “look at the pretty shiny new lipstick I bought”). If a layman makeup blogger has a website that is well-written, informative and speaks to its readers, why would I begrudge them the attention they receive from makeup companies? The old guard needs to be challenged, and constantly.
That being said I can understand that it must be frustrating to dedicate your life to your profession, and feel usurped by those for whom it is a hobby. But I don’t believe that’s any reason to denigrate the makeup blogging community.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Amy -I think you’ll find that the ‘sad little women’ I was referring to actually stems from this post (by you?)
Amy Says:
February 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
you bunch of sad women. Get out and get a job with makeup if you’re that passionate about it all.
AND
MakeupFan Says:
February 16th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
ha ha ha ha ha!
don’t you all look stupid now – twitter never lies…
and funnily enough, all you little girls who are having a good old moan in twitter land amongst yourselves, well, when I read your blogs, most of them, with only a few exceptions, mention how you’ve been invited to this launch or that launch, or you’ve received this or that…
I am not angry. I am bemused. I have not used an angry tone on any of my comments and I think you’ll find that in my inital posts, I actually agreed with some of the points Sam was making. And as I said above, I am hoping to ‘get a job with make-up’ in the near future. However, I hope that the people I get to work with exhibit more professionalism than *some* of the comments have been written with here.
For the eliminate any expectation that I am ‘afraid’ here is my blog address.
http://www.amandawrightmake-upaddict.blogspot.com
February 18th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
perhaps you missed the point, many readers are looking for advice from people like them, regular consumers like them. Just like consumers read reviews about electronics, cars, and restaurants. Sure u can read what a top critique says, or your college roommate who is similar to you.
It’s pretty funny that t you think so highly of yourself & you have the guts to compare yourself to Cosmo or a magazine *giggling* . If you didn’t think so highly of yourself getting the media pass, then perhaps you wouldn’t have be offended.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Yes, blogs do have multiple writers. I appreciate you have only just heard of them, but yes.
This, being an opinion piece published by an amateur writer online, is little different from a blog.
Goodcluck to you if you’re getting press exposure. But! So are bloggers. Sady from Tiger Beatdown is writing for the Guardian. GuidoFawkes isn’t just commentating on the news, he’s breaking stories in the press. And it’ll happen with beauty blogs too – there are a lot of talented men and women out there. As someone who had their journo training from a very respectable org, my advice is to put effort into what you’re working on rather than expend it on jealousy of others.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Firstly, Sam: blogs can have more than one writer, as you should know, given your criticism of our blog, which has two writers, so that’s a bit of a moot point.
The lines are becoming increasingly blurred between consumer blogs, MUA blogs, and online magazines. This is not a bad thing. A wide choice of content from a variety of sources can only be a good thing for consumers and makeup artists alike. There needs to be tolerance from all sides; we all have opinions, we are all entitled to those opinions, and we should all respect the opinions of others without being derisive.
The Internet is undoubtably big enough for all of us, professional or non-professional, journalist or not.
Gemma
http://www.londonbeautyreview.com
February 19th, 2010 at 12:48 am
Amanda, no that was most definitely not me (and I always link back to my site). And my apologies for not reading more carefully; it was a long day. Thank you for taking the time to respond and correct me.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:48 am
I am a professional makeup artist first, blogger second. I can count the number of free things I’ve received on one hand, its been 4 things. Its definitely not the backbone of my blog and why I started it. Its place for me to have fun and talk bout my work. If I love something I say so, if a product has negative points I say so. But free items are definitely not the majority of what I review. 99% of what I have is bought by yours truly. Half the time I’m so busy in the real world I’m not churning out review after review and look after look. I think it definitely simple minded and hateful to generalize most bloggers. I’ve met many a “self proclaimed” makeup artist who knows less about products and hygene than some of these “silly and sad women” bloggers. Who are YOU to say?
Blogs have always been a place of personal experience for everyday people. Anyone who has a thought can blog, and they have a right to. Who cares if things are swatched on arms. A girl in Croatia can see exactly what a lipstick shade looks like on the arm of a blogger, because since she can only order the product online, and the only swatch she is provided there is provided there is a little block of color. A girl who has a darker skin tone can see what a product looks like on another dark skin tone on a blog because the online shop only shows the image on a lighter model. For you to not recognize the benefits and positive impact of blogging is sheer ignorance.
This part of your article:
“Again, I’ve done my investigation since this conversation, and are you kidding me? These are NON professionals who’ve tried them out 2 or 3 times and trashed them straight off. I’m a professional makeup artist and have been using them for about 6 weeks on dozens of different faces and am now prepared to give them an appropriate review, based on experience and a test over time.”
One, why are you so upset? Do you have a personal stock or interest in these products? Are they giving YOU freebies? Secondly, it is your right, just like anyone elses, to do a review of a product. That is the whole point of reading blog reviews. Reading the many different opinions of different people. There may be someone who has a certain skin type or condition that impacts her review, and should be mentioned. And there may be a person with that exact same skin condition looking for someone else’s experience with a product before they buy. What if one of those dozens of faces you have put a product on goes home and writes their experience on how the application felt and how their skin is once they are home for all to see. Is their opinion totally worthless?
I, for one, am not outraged, I’m chuckling here because your outlook and your attempt to discredit every “non makeup professional” (by YOUR standards) is VERY pathetic and only makes you look like a petty child who dislikes the “new kid”. Not every blog is perfect, not every one is useful. Some are all about “hauls”, some are not. But there are some authors of these blogs who are more educated than you may think in makeup and journalism and are so to the point that companies and the general public can value their viewpoint. Few people are lucky enough to find work in their field or their passion. Some people are fully trained, but doing other things with their life. What makes them any less of a great view point than you and MAF? Is it simple because they are not in an “online magazine” and haven’t “paid their dues”? Stop being so childish.
Oh and I’m not scared to leave my information. I know I’m damn great and so is my work. My blog is http://www.justkissnmakeup.com and my Model Mayhem is http://www.modelmayhem.com/897431
February 19th, 2010 at 2:46 am
Anger over disputing whether or not bloggers ought to be considered media/press is just a tempest in a teapot. The fact is that the public already has a startlingly low impression of the traditional press now anyway. What really is “the media” anymore? Journalistic standards? What’s that?
Forget the generalizations. Every media outlet is different, as are individual bloggers from one another. Some bloggers treat the subject matter with as much or more journalistic respect as the traditional offline media ever did.
And the fact remains: some bloggers are simply good at connecting with readers, which is why many have readerships vastly higher than their “traditional” media counterparts or so-called makeup experts. There’s more to being popular and respected than simply being technically qualified. It’s like how many people prefer talking with a nurse over their doctor because they actually “like” their nurse but hate their doctor, LOL!
February 19th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Wow! Well this has certainly got Sam on the map.
At the same time I’m quite amazed that so many people cannot convey their feelings without name calling and vitriole.
Here’s a surprise…I really couldn’t care less about makeup, I was answering the main question, “Is Blogging the new media”. Whilst I can understand some of the comments re: the makeup (and the original post did go off on a slight tangent), everything seems to have dissolved into a bunfight.
Let’s calm down people and, regardless of whether you are a professional MA, makeup is your hobby, be you blogger or journalist, can we behave as though we are all adults and have a decent debate?
Blogging about things does have the potential to cause problems. I know, I’ve recently had a visit from the police about something in my blog. (Thankfully, they didn’t consider there to be anything amiss). Therefore, there’s a whole world of people out there who, sadly, do not have minds of their own and are willing to follow like sheep just because their friend, who is a blogger, says something. I do think we have to take some resposibility for what we post and assume that the people who read them aren’t perhaps as savvy as the rest of us.
I’ve recently been involved in an online debate where someone said that a person who is a size 16 is fat. Where has she formed these opinions? Mainly through the media and as there are so many blogs now, with even the mainstream companies using them (and Twitter), blogging is a new media and as such bloggers should take some responsibility for what they are posting.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:30 am
This is the third time I have tried to comment on this post. I have had both of my other comments removed.
I haven’t sworn once.
I wrote the hygiene post, I met Sam at IMATS, and I have been targeted in this article, along with my co-writer Gemma.
I am going to try one last time to set this straight – our post was not about a Benefit counter, and we have no reason to believe their counter hygiene is anything but excellent. Sam is mistaken about this and it should be corrected since this article is getting so much traffic.
our URL is http://www.londonbeautyreview.com. We are non-professional bloggers, and will continue to be so.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:54 am
I have nothing to add to this post but this: Keep going in your own direction, do what you want and don’t worry so much about what everyone else is doing and thinking. Unless the building is on fire, then you should perhaps go along with everyone else.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Sarah, your previous post is on the comments section at 1034 on Feb 17th. Gemma’s previous comment is also there somewhere…
I do not moderate comments. Would hardly be an unbiased if I did.
You and Gemma were not ‘targeted’, simply used as an example. Perhaps I was less than subtle in using you as an example, perhaps I should have been more generalised when I used your hygiene post as a reference point. It was never my intention to have a go at you, simply to use an example of blogging for the sake of it and I’m sorry that you have been upset by further comments that others have left on here, that was never where I wanted to go with this article.
Sam
February 19th, 2010 at 11:58 am
What is Sam meant to be jealous about???
She expressed surprise at bloggers being classed as Press at an event. fair enough. She also had conversations with other bloggers at the event. Fair enough. One blogger in particular said that she didn’t like a just-launched product and based it exclusively on other blog reviews, which on further investigation by Sam, showed to be only a few blogs on the web at the time.
Seems like a good enough reason to me to start looking into why bloggers are classed as Press.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Thank you for the apology, Sam.
I think we would both appreciate it if you could prefix or postfix your article with a note that exonerates Benefit, as the original article you refer to didn’t mention the brand counter involved, and your assumption was incorrect and potentially damaging.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Gemma, I’ve put an amendment to the bottom of the article with today’s date.
You can understand how I came to the understanding that you were discussing Benefit though, as you didn’t say that you were at a different counter.
“Sometimes it’s fun to go along with the sales pitch, barring a little awkwardness when it comes to the hard sell (I’m thinking here of my poor family member who came away from the counter of a certain aggressively-marketed Californian brand beginning with “B”, bearing £100 of products she didn’t need and hadn’t intended to buy, just because she couldn’t stand up to the sales girl). *deep breath* But the thing that bugs me about all this, if you’ll forgive the pun, is hygiene.
Recently I found myself in the chair in an Oxford Street beauty hall, having my eyes lined by a girl who wasn’t a trained artist. She was putting pencil on the inner rims of my eyes – something I’m hesitant to do even for myself.”
I think Andrea made a valid point when I first wrote this article, be careful what you write in case it comes back and bites you on the butt… goes all ways I suppose ;o)
Sam x
February 19th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Is blogging the new media? Not exclusively, but yes, in my opinion it is becoming/has become a part of the media in general and as a result I’m sure more bloggers will turn up at events etc with press passes.
The reason I think this is because they offer another angle on product reviews and news that is open for the public to read. It is public communication after all, just as much as a magazine or online webzine.
As a result, I think bloggers have to take more responsibility for what they write (which I know many do). As this form of media develops unfortunately people may not be able to use blogs as just ‘online diaries’ and need to appreciate the impact they may be having on their readers.
Journalists also need to see this as healthy competition and an opportunity to up their game and make themselves more reader friendly.
Make up artists need to also realise that whilst training and on the job experience counts for a lot, there are some people who create amazing make up looks as a hobby and it will get them noticed. This should spur you on to create and find better looks for people.
Overall, I don’t see why there should be this anger or bitterness. Whatever position you are coming from, use it as an opportunity to better what you do so that everyone has the best, informed position when buying products as possible.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
ha, I go away for work for a couple of days, and bam! loads and loads more comments.
I’ve just merrily giggled away to myself for the best part of an hour. Best entertainment I’ve had in a long time, thank you Sam for posting your article, it’s made my year!
Some of you bloggers are so up yourselves its shocking. ‘we review because we love it’, ‘its nice to get samples but we’d blog anyway’ ‘our opinion counts more because we’re not getting paid to do it’
well, I’m sure that Eve Cameron, Kate Shapland, Ariane Poole and co would all LOVE to be told that their opinion doesn’t count and that they obviously don’t use products.
okay, granted there are some lower end magazines that churn out one liners, but some of the more fashion based magazines do some pretty good ‘recreate the look’ articles amongst other things. And I bet they’ve used the products too, they’d probably not have their jobs otherwise.
And as an eye opener for all you bloggers who are on your pedestal because you don’t get paid to write reviews. Beauty writers get the same samples as you, and also write reviews, but they DO get paid for it!!! Who’s the fool now???
February 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Thanks for that Sam.
Fairly common practise in writing to put supplementary information which is an aside from the main topic in parentheses; the comment about Benefit’s hard sell is in parentheses, and is such meant as an aside to the main content.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
So are you not talking about Benefit Gemma/Sarah? Reads to me as though you are.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Jo Jo Jo. You’re outpouring of ‘since when is this a magazine that you pay to read, its not, it’s just a forum’ is a very blinkered view, and is probably why you don’t have a blog, that and your dreadful spelling and grammar. or rather, not one you’re prepared to admit to having….
I think it’s quite obvious that this is an ONLINE magazine, as Sam stated right at the beginning of her article. She says that online mags are a relatively new thing, and they are. Yeah, Handbag has been around for 10 years, but in terms of how online magazines are catching on, dotcom magazines haven’t been around for that many years. And do get your facts right, this part of MAF is not the forum, it’s over here if you want to take a look http://www.makeupadviceforum.com/forum/
February 19th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Carolyn: as has been stated many times, no, the hygiene post is NOT about Benefit.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
I read that as you talking about Benefit aswell.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
I know you say that, it just reads that way, parentheses or not.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
We will take your opinions into account in future posts. Consider this a final clarification: the post is NOT about Benefit.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Hi,
I guess you had some bad experience with some bloggers and deducted that all bloggers are bad. First of all, most of us out there choose to blog because we truly love makeup and beauty. Some of us are very knowledgeable in makeup. I myself have an undergraduate degree in Biochemistry and a master’s degree in Environmental Science. I do my research on chemicals and human health so while I do not work in the beauty industry, I know a thing or two about health and beauty aspect through a lot of research and reading.
Also, most of my blogging colleagues have graduate degrees. They are lawyers, doctors, and journalists. If you look at reputable blogs, you will see most of us are well-educated and do give honest opinions to our readers.
The relationship between bloggers and makeup companies are known. You stated that MAC and Bobbi Brown do not send items to blogger is not very true. If you look at the Konnection 100 most influential beauty blogger list, you will realize companies owned by Estee Lauder (which MAC and Bobbi Brown are under) do send out samples to top beauty bloggers for review. It is up to bloggers to disclose it.
Another point: things change, especially in the media. Now, most TV channels and magazines have their own blogs and twitter accounts because publishing in print once daily/weekly/monthly is not enough. If you notice, beauty magazines do receive products to review and the amount they receive is a lot more exorbitant than what most bloggers receive.
The old media vs. new media conversation is dated. Most reputable blogs survive because the people behind them do put a lot of efforts, mostly unpaid, toward their blogs. It is a common practice now for bloggers to receive press passes and the wise ones take these opportunities to learn. Thank you for giving your honest opinions but before you decide to group all beauty bloggers together based on some few conversations in a convention, you should read a lot more beauty blogs available out there.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:17 am
I have been fascinated by all this ‘drama’.
Good on you Sam for raising some really valid points. As you say yourself, its only the tip of the iceberg, there are so many other ‘issues’ with beauty blogging that we could be here all year.
What’s fascinated me most of all is how many of them who’ve responded on here have instantly got on their high horses saying ‘we don’t read magazines because they don’t review products’ and other such silly things.
I agree that most bloggers are fickle. You do jump from brand to brand and product to product. what’s most fickle about you all is that you show your fickle side by just agreeing with the clique…
February 20th, 2010 at 9:47 am
I think Georgina, a few replies above this, has put it quite eloquently.
Yes, there are some dodgy bloggers, but equally, anyone who does write a blog needs to be responsible for what they write. Many aren’t aware of how many people are reading them. It’s not just those who are on their follow/friends list. There are others who aren’t bloggers and just read them now and again, or who google for reviews on something they are considering buying.
I also think its quite a sweeping for people to say that the author of the article is stupid for not knowing that everyone knows what a blog is. Everyone DOESN’T know what a blog is. I didn’t know until the last year or so, and many of my friends and family don’t either. I’m not old or past it, I’m only 32, and I’m relatively internet aware, and I think Sam’s right to point out what a blog traditionally was, and how it is seen now.
I love watching YouTube videos, I find them fascinating, both the good and the bad ones. I also like to see how so many people do different looks, both male and female! I find them more useful than blogs, though I don’t rule out blogging.
What’s so apparent though, is that some of the best bloggers (in my opinion) out there who are highly likely to be aware of this article have chosen not to comment on here, and have chosen not to put anti-MAF posts on their own blogs.
Those are the ones I will continue to follow. The rest of who’ve been so juvenile about this are struck off my follow list, and while I may be only 1 person, I doubt I’m alone in my feelings.
I commend you Sam for writing this article. I’m sorry you’ve been the brunt of such vitriol, and I’m sorry that so many bloggers have taken it so personally. It’s sad that they didn’t feel the need to stop, read and take on board what you were saying.
SJ
March 20th, 2010 at 12:37 am
As I was reading then skimming through the myriad of comments above, another reason came to mind. On a blog with many comments I often do not comment even though I may have something to say. I may be repeating something already said and often do not have the time to read all comments that have already been made.
March 27th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
I’m sorry if I have repeated some points here but I just want to say something. Forgive me for my vertigo.
You’ve had a few interesting points, but I’ve had a problem with a majority of them.
I’ve been in the theatre industry ever since I was young. And until now, I’m still doing it. In fact, I’m even studying it. I deal with make- up, but I’m not a make- up artist by profession nor have I taken a course in make- up during my study.
So wouldn’t that make me a qualified beauty blogger given the fact that I’ve been dealing with make- up for years?
What makes you think that just by being a professional make- up artist, or a fashion/beauty magazine editor makes someone qualified to review make- ups? Does it even have to come to a point where you have to be a PROFESSIONAL just to review a product? I don’t think so.
I look at it this way: PROFESSIONALS who are dealing with this kind of work are paid to do whatever they’re supposed to do. Of course, If you’re from Cosmetic Company A, you’d probably say a lot of good stuff when at the back of your head, there are also downsides to your products. And that’s what I like about personal reviews: Whether it be the most expensive or the cheapest item in the world, it is unbiased. ‘Cos they’re not paid to do so!
Blogging probably may be a new form of advertising that’s why people and brands adhere to it so much. It’s sort of a micro- kind of way to reaching out to the public.
There’s nothing wrong in saying what you think on a certain product. If it’s rubbish to the blogger/consumer, then you can’t do anything about that!
Those who adhere so much to reviews (based on the girl that you’re talking about who said that the product was rubbish based on beauty blogs, it’s their personal choice. But then again, this doesn’t speak so much about beauty blogging. And you’re only talking of what? A few bloggers you’ve met at the IMATS event. They are just the icing on the cake.
Personal reviews are meant to be taken in context. Most probably the reason why the girl who said that the product was “rubbish” may have found interesting points (like they might have the same skin type, allergic reactions, etc.). This may be shallow for you, but it’s her choice.
Beauty blogs would even say disclaimers like: ALL REVIEWS ARE PERSONAL. SO USE THE PRODUCT AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION. And even without disclaimers like this, the fact that a blog is PERSONAL gives you the discretion.
And for pete’s sake, it’s a blog, it even came from you that it’s a personal space. Whatever they want to put in there or whatever they want to turn into is based on them. We are entitled to our own opinions and we are responsible for what say. But your decision is YOUR responsibility.
I think the only issue here is that we’re turning beauty blogging into a big issue. We have our own spaces, our own perspectives. So let’s just sit back, relax, and type away!
March 31st, 2010 at 2:06 pm
hi!
honestly, blogging is your own opinion, as this entry was yours. and it’ll be hypocritical if you are upset that people are simply speaking their own opinion. so don’t hate, just don’t read if you don’t want to see it.
don’t make something your problem when it doesn’t have to be. life is too short, don’t waste it by getting upset–they have a rite to write what they want, as you do. you’re only causing bad vibes~
April 7th, 2010 at 3:26 am
Interesting argument, I’m more than a month late but I’d like to share my thoughts on the matter. Before anything else I’d like to say that I’m neither a beauty blogger nor a makeup artist, rather I’m an avid buyer and user of beauty products – particularly makeup and skin care.
With that out of the way I’d like to say that in my humble opinion, being a professional makeup artist does not make you better than a beauty blogger when it comes to reviewing beauty products for the following reasons:
- Formal training does not an expert make. Formal training can help most people acquire skills they never had, polish or perfect a natural talent. But some are just born naturally gifted with their unique way of absorbing knowledge. While some of these beauty bloggers may have never had the same formal training you did, their skills may match or even exceed yours.
- Beauty products are tools, you can use them for what they were intended and you can use them for other things. Like a sheer pink shadow which I have too many of, I started using them as highlighters and blushes. There’s really no such thing as proper use for beauty products. As long as you don’t use it in a manner that brings harm to your self, to others or infringes upon the intellectual property of the company then it’s a case of “you bought it, you own it” – regardless of what “experts” such as yourself recommends.
- You’re a make up artist by profession, most beauty bloggers are not. News flash – the giant share of the cosmetics consumers are not professional makeup artists either. So most consumers can relate better to beauty bloggers because they are just like them – students, mothers, lawyers, nurses, stock brokers etc – who have an appetite for makeup and just about any beauty product.
- Beauty blogs are out there, where are you? If you want to set a standard in the beauty blogging world or just set the world of blogging right then do something other than writing a flame bait article. Create an online site or maybe even a different media platform to pummel the beauty blogs you look down on.
- As a buyer, I would like to research first before purchasing anything specially on non essential items like makeup. I have more than enough makeup to last me 10 lifetimes but that won’t stop me from buying another tube of lipstick or pan of eyeshadow any time soon. But before I buy, I’d like to hear the thoughts of those that have tested the product and most importantly see the swatches on actual skin. Beauty blogs offer that, do you offer that?
- As for writing style and so-called journalistic perspective, it’s rare to find a beauty blogger who is also gifted with writing. But the thing is, if you walk into a McDonalds – do you expect to see steak on their menu? I don’t. I don’t expect good writing from most fashion magazines either because they just don’t have that – feeding the intellect is not what these magazines exist for. If I want good writing and journalistic perspective, I pick up Time magazine or National Geographic.
- Finally, thank you for your concern but I have to say it’s quite misguided. Give us readers the benefit of the doubt. Just because I visit a beauty blog everyday doesn’t mean I become a sheep. Sure the writing leaves a lot to be desired and the reviews are not from a “journalistic perspective” but do I really need that for makeup?! Personally I just want to see the product up close, a swatch of it and the ingredients list.
On a last note, I just wanted to ask if you – as a professional makeup artist – do you think Maybelline’s Great Lash mascara is the best mascara “ever”? Because according to fashion magazines, that’s what “professional makeup artists” are saying. Beauty bloggers call it “pure crap”. You know what, I’ve gone through 3 tubes of that thing. Each time I throw it away after using for a week. Why? Because it’s pure crap for me. And no, I will not enroll in makeup school just to properly learn how to use it.
May 11th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
I think this is a real great article. Want more.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Well, it looks like you have put a lot of hard work in your writings. And to tell you the truth, it’s been very successful. It is one of the best blogs that I have read recently.
May 16th, 2010 at 11:20 am
I’ve been following this blog with regard to right now and I should say I’m beginning like your post.
May 16th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
You certainly deserve a round of applause for your post and more specifically, your blog in general. Very high quality material
May 18th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Are bloggers press or not? Did that get answered anywhere?
I think that many of Sam’s points are valid. She says that a blogger who only uses makeup on their own face will give an unbalanced view. Well I can’t understand how no-one else can see that.
Chanel Vitalumiere – great for dry skin. Hopeless on someone who’s got oily skin and went out and bought it and thus gives a review of ‘this was hopeless’. Better for a pro to give a review saying ‘works best for people with dry skins, will slip and slide if you have oily skin’
Get the point???
Doh!
May 19th, 2010 at 11:13 am
I actually came here via a so-called ‘beauty blog’ so I got the gist of your argument.
As quoted from you, “but perhaps its time to take more seriously, the blogger who has a professional background to what she’s saying, rather than the one that talks the most and the loudest, often with not a lot of content.”
I also quote “I will hasten to add that I’ve never been to journalism school and don’t have qualifications in writing, however, I write with a journalistic approach.”
Um. No “professional background” and “a lot of content” *scrolls through entire wall of texts*?
Well.
Tl;dr.
May 21st, 2010 at 11:26 am
BritishBeautyBlogger, you worded it yourself “You cannot compare blogs to beauty journalism – they are entirely different forms of media but neither are less valid than the other.”
I think that’s the point Sam was making. She said that bloggers are due their opinion, but asked if the should be recognised members of the press. as you said yourself, you can’t compare the two, but why then are bloggers now being given press passes when they aren’t members of the press?
May 21st, 2010 at 3:00 pm
I’ve been in and around the beauty world for many years. In excess of 10 in fact, and have come across Sam and some of the regular MAF girls on various ocassions over the years. I’m not a blogger, nor am I a writer of any sort. I’m just (?!) a makeup artist.
Hence why its taken me a while to stumble across this post, but like most things in life, we wander across the internet – where it leads us, nobody knows…
Getting to my point, its wrong of the commenters to assume that everyone knows what a blog is, and its wrong to assume that just because Sam’s explained at the top what a blog is, that she therefore doesn’t know. She’s in all likelihood, written that to explain to the mag readers what blogging is about and is working on the assumption that actually not everyone DOES know what a blog is. Just because some people do, doesn’t mean that everyone does.
What’s also very interesting, having trawled through the responses, is that many have got on the defensive and not stopped and seen what her point was. Its not about who’s right or wrong, its about whether bloggers are legitimate press or not.
I don’t subscribe to this new idea of ‘citizen media’. I believe that bloggers should be answerable and accountable for their words in the same way that the press has a press complaints commission. who can take on the might of the general public’s ‘right to know’ though. Its impossible and totally impossible to police. anyone can say anything about anyone and claim ‘its my personal opinion and I have a right to it’…
Sally
May 21st, 2010 at 5:26 pm
is this still being talked about??? yawn!
May 26th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
if you don’t want to be bothered by blogging people, don’t read one. you don’t own the internet, and online businesses owes their revenues from bloggers like me because without me writing “some sort of media in their own right” there won’t be online marketing and these companies like beauty products won’t have people to advertise them both paid and free. grow up and start writing more educational stuff, you’re just being like a blogger.
moron.
June 12th, 2010 at 9:01 am
Good points…I would note that as someone who really doesn’t comment to blogs much, I don’t think the term “lurker” is very becoming to a non-posting reader. It’s not your fault at all, but perhaps the blogosphere could come up with a better, non-creepy name for the 90% of us that enjoy just reading the posts.